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Holding people accountable and blaming

Posted By: see past the labels please on 2008-09-29
In Reply to: When I said dems, I meant the ones on the hill.... - sam

people are 2 different things.  Blaming either party will get us nowhere.  The situation is upon us and the blame game is only holding up the resolution.


Holding people accountable may help to prevent a similar situation in the future.  Holding someone accountable means owning up to their part in the problem and making retribution to fix the problem.  If someone went along with this and gained financially from it, then that person should be accountable - own up and pay up.  If someone went along with this and gained politically, then that person should be accountable - own up and give up (your position). 


I took serious offense to your comment because you didn't say it was directed to the politicians on the hill.  You said as a general statement to all dems. 




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Blaming wrong people......
Blame the freakin' banks and CEOs - Wall St., speculators driving up housing costs (just like they are driving up gas costs, again). Barney Frank didn't bag all these mortgages into derivatives and then bet on the derivatives......Sheesh. When I refinanced my other home (yes, we have 2), I was told my loan would probably be sold. It never was. Probably because the payments were always made on time. (this was 5-6 years ago). My husband was laid off the first of the year (I don't work due to medical problems). My kids are paying the mortgage on the 2nd house. (I had a house when I married, then we bought a house together right before we were married). We don't have a pot to pss in, but, we have 2 houses to worry about. Can't sell 'em and our mortgage on the house WE live in is cheaper than rent.
Yeah, there have been but I can only be accountable for myself...sm
Like I said before, you get trolled on your board and then come and take it out on the liberal posters like we are the trolls over there. That's why I suggested the new posters use monikers. Now, I know the trolls won't use monikers; they'd rather drive by and insult like they have been, but now that Starcat has a moniker at least I won't get her posts confused with the troll.

I don't have a short memory. I know there have been trolls for years, but I don't know what point you are trying to make. All I asked is for them to show us the respect of using a moniker, so those of us who are not interested in their sarcastic, insult filled, anti-everything-liberal posts could ignore. Remember, this is the liberal board where you can expect liberal view points being discussed.

Someone needs to hold them accountable.
Obviously their own party is not going to. Glad to pile on Bush and the Republicans for every wrong they think they did, but accept no responsibility or ask accountability of their own party who let us ALL down.
Oldtimer, I do not understand that. No way, no how.
They should all be held accountable s/m
Especially given Cheney's brazen admission to not only knowing about, but giving the green light on the types of torture that we used to deem punishable by death.  If we as Americans don't stand up and demand accountability for these heinous acts, we are no better than the other despotic nations that allow this. 
So when will Bush be accountable
for the atrocious outrageous things he and his cronies have done?  Accountability?  Reps don't even know what that word means.  My belief is that the Obama administration should try them for war crimes, treason, on and on. 
Update: Pat's finally being held accountable

for his hateful words.  Israel now refuses to do business with him because of his bizarre remarks about Sharon. Needless to say, I was very happy to see this.






  MSNBC.com

Israel pulls plug on Pat Robertson deal
Officials angry over evangelical leader's comments about Sharon's stroke


The Associated Press

Updated: 8:14 a.m. ET Jan. 11, 2006



JERUSALEM - Israel won't do business with Pat Robertson after the evangelical leader suggested Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's massive stroke was divine punishment, a tourism official said Wednesday, putting into doubt plans to develop a large Christian tourism center in northern Israel.


Avi Hartuv, spokesman for Israel's tourism minister, said officials are furious with Robertson's suggestion that the stroke was retribution for Sharon's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip last summer. We can't accept this kind of statement, Hartuv said.


Robertson is leading a group of evangelicals who have pledged to raise $50 million to build the Christian Heritage Center in Israel's northern Galilee region, where tradition says Jesus lived and taught.


Under a tentative agreement, Robertson's group was to put up the funding, while Israel would provide land and infrastructure. Israeli officials believe the project will generate tens of millions of tourism dollars.


But the project now is in question in light of Robertson's comments, said Hartuv.


We will not do business with him, only with other evangelicals who don't back these comments, Hartuv said. We will do business with other evangelical leaders, friends of Israel, but not with him.


A day after Sharon's stroke on Jan. 4, Robertson suggested the prime minister was being punished for dividing God's land, a reference to the August pullout from the Gaza Strip and four West Bank settlements.


God considers this land to be his, Robertson said on his TV program The 700 Club. You read the Bible and he says 'This is my land,' and for any prime minister of Israel who decides he is going to carve it up and give it away, God says, 'No, this is mine.'


Robertson's comments also drew condemnation from other Christian leaders and even U.S. President George W. Bush.


The ministry's decision was first reported in Wednesday's edition of The Jerusalem Post.


Christian center planned near Galilee
Robertson's Christian Heritage Center was to be tucked away in 35 acres of rolling Galilee hills, near key Christian sites such as Capernaum, the Mount of the Beatitudes, where tradition says Jesus delivered the Sermon of the Mount, and Tabgha -- on the shores of the Sea of Galilee -- where Christians believe Jesus performed the miracle of the loaves and fish.


The project underlines how ties have strengthened in recent years between Israel and evangelical Christian groups that support the Jewish state.


Israel was considering leasing the land to the Christians for free. Tourism Minister Avraham Hirschson predicted it would annually draw up to 1 million pilgrims who would spend $1.5 billion in Israel and support about 40,000 jobs.


Hirschson, however, is one of Sharon's biggest supporters, and a member of the centrist Kadima party recently founded by the prime minister.


Hartuv left the door open to continuing the project, but only with people who don't back Robertson's statements.


We want to see who in the group supports his (Robertson's) statements. Those who support the statements cannot do business with us. Those that publicly support Ariel Sharon's recovery ... are welcome to do business with us, Hartuv said. We have to check this very, very carefully.


© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.





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© 2006 MSNBC.com




URL: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10802750/


Why do all of a sudden want to hold leaders accountable?
wHat about Bill Clinton committing felony perjury? Having sex with an intern in the oval office? Where was the personal responsibility and who is holding him accountable? WHen are you going to drop the double standard and apply the same set of rules to everyone?
It is the jobs of their constituents to hold them accountable...sm
and vote them out if they are not doing their job. You turn a deaf ear to anything the dems on this board have to say, only causing us to tune you out when you keep the broken record going.
If you don't think libs hold the dems accountable
They are harsher in their criticisms than the conservatives.
Thank you for not blaming
I think we can all agree that there is a lot wrong and we hope it can be fixed. Too many people seemed to be focused on blaming someone instead of coming up with solutions. I really get tired of people blaming Bush for stuff that is not his fault. I agree he has not been one of the best presidents, but neither was Carter or Clinton (and I voted for both of them), but sometimes we have to just put our ego aside and try and find some solutions. I'm sure the people who are out of work are not looking to blame someone, they just want to know how it's going to be fixed. I believe both sides have had a part in the way our economy is. It is niether solely one or the others.
What are you blaming him for?
Nothing bad has happened that is not a repercussion of previous administrations.

He's only been in office for 60-plus days for goodness sakes. Give the man a chance.

I don't think SPENDING money in the US is blowing money. I think blowing money is money spent on a bad-intentioned war that killed and maimed thousands.

So what would you do... let the water stagnate... just not do anything? Please link me to the Republicans' solution/plan for getting us out of what they got us into. thank you.
I have been holding my tongue on that ...sm
It is interesting though. These were Bush, Reagan, Ford and Clinton appointees that made this decision (5-3). And I see where the right is upset, but to me it is pivotal that they followed the law and not beliefs and I'll tell you why.

Charles Lane, writer for the Washington Times wrote (see link below), *Brushing aside administration pleas not to second-guess the commander in chief during wartime, a five-justice majority ruled that the commissions, which were outlined by Bush in a military order on Nov. 13, 2001, ***were neither authorized by federal law nor required by military necessity, and ran afoul of the Geneva Conventions.*** As a result, no military commission can try Salim Ahmed Hamdan, the former aide to Osama bin Laden whose case was before the justices, or anyone else, unless the president does one of two things he has resisted doing for more than four years: operate the commissions by the rules of regular military courts-martial, or ask Congress for specific permission to proceed differently.*

Looking at it this way, *Bush* NOT the Supreme Court, has held this up for four years when he could have done the prior one or two things. No president can just willy nilly make up things as he goes without going through the proper channels. This case is no different. Checks and balances is taught in elementary nowadays. I predict as he ways he will, he will get with Congress and they will collectively make a decision on something that will bring the POWs to justice (wishful thinking).

Do I want to see bin Laden's assistant, or any other war criminals walk? No, especially not the perpetrators in the 9-11 attacks. That's something I do not want to see come of this decision, but we must respect our own democracy in seeking justice.

This is just my opinion of what I understand is going on with the decision. If anyone can shed some more light on it I'd appreciate it. Have a good holiday weekend!
Just because I'm tired of the blaming and
bashing on both sides? Okay. You win. It's all the Dem's fault and everyone should run them out of the country.
Help me understand why nobody is blaming the Big 3?

I feel like everybody is blaming the wrong people for the problems the car industry is facing...  I think it is the car industry themselves who should take responsibility for getting themselves out of the mess they are in or else shut their doors.  Every other business in America does that.  If they cannot handle the financial part of their business, then they go out of business... 


I understand that it is going to put a lot of people in a bad situation and I feel very sorry for them, I really do.  However, I don't think it is my responsibility to have to pay more to help them.  Is that not the same thing that everyone has been fussing about, "redistributing the wealth"?  I feel sure right now if the company I worked for were in financial trouble, they would close their doors because the government is not going to step in and help them, and I feel sure I would be sitting here with no job and no income and nobody is going to step up to do a bailout package for the transcription companies.


How about the construction workers?  Is the government working on a bailout for them?  What about the electricians, the plumbers?  It all has to end at some point.  I personally feel like we are all in the same boat right now and that we are all going under, so why do we have to throw more money on top of bad money to delay the inevitable?


I'm not holding my breath......sm
I'll believe Obama gives me a tax cut when it happens, as well as help out with my health insurance. Can't tell from his website how "exactly" that's going to happen. His website if filled with a whole lot of words that are meaningless to me. Sounds good, but I don't see a lot of substance there, just like when he was campaigning.

Not holding my breath, but I'll come back and tell you if either of those things happen.



Not a Republican even though I leaned towards McCain over Obama, since he's such an unknown (and still is), and I actually decided I couldn't vote for McCain either....so my vote went to neither of them.


Who's holding a gun to your head? Don't like him
Simple as pie. Why spend your life being angry and posting these pathetically juvenile insults? Nothing better to do?
Not blaming Obama. Who was
The lucrative virus contract was awarded the day before Obama became president. Which party has admitted they have a lot to gain if America gets **hit** again? Who had a supposed homeland security **bioterror** plan within the last 8 years? The timing of this is very interesting with Cheney saying in the last couple weeks that Obama can't keep us safe and voila! There's a brand new flu that combines all the ones we were told for the last few years could trigger a **pandemic**, especially the bird flu.  Oh and now some **experts** are saying this very well could have started in America and not Mexico. Since 2001, the only grip republicans had on Americans was fear and they used it often. Too convenient.
Just saying and blaming 'propaganda' is not enough, .........sm
give us YOUR version of the truth.

Hello!
Are you still there?
next thing you know she will be blaming sm
the gays because she burned her toast this morning!
Are they blaming conservatives
and pro-life people for one person who lied?  It seems to me like these pro-life people were trying to be supportive and be there for someone that they really thought needed them.  How where they supposed to know that they were being lied to?  Instead of blaming conservatives as a whole on this one, why aren't they placing the blame on the ignorant woman who was addicted to blogging and made all of this up?  I just don't get the logic some of you people have.  One person lied and so all these pro-lifers came to her aid thinking she needed it and somehow it isn't the liars fault.....it is the pro-lifers.  Yeah...makes perfect sense.....sheesh
There ARE reasons beyond blaming Bush...
for the haves and the have nots.  How many of those people wandering the streets worked hard in school, applied for FREE tuition at the local college (which they most certainly qualify for based on income), waited until they were married to have kids, and on and on?  WIth 70% of African-American babies born to single women these days, it's no wonder that poverty runs rampant among the African-American communities.  It's sad, it's tragic, and I'd go there right now to give ANY of those people all the food and water I have in my house right now, but you cannot totally blame others for their financial position... Most of it comes from poor personal choices.  This is a country of opportunity and people only need to be smart and avail themselves of it. 
What's holding Edwards back?

It is no more of a stretch than blaming McCain for it...
and that is what many are trying to do. Shame on THEM. Why don't you correct them as well?
blaming someone you know nothing about for something that hasn't happened
x
Hypocrisy is aplogizing and blaming someone else
Voters are tired...real tired...of this party's double speak.
Still holding out that last desperate hope
DNC has proven this over and over and over and over and over again. Burden or proof is now on the Berg the Boob.
the world is holding their breath
After 9/11 would the United States really elect a black man named Barack Hussein Obama?
Right now on C-Span, they are holding hearings
for the auto bailout. It's just starting.
Ohmigod - now you are blaming the flu on Obama?
I think now I have heard it all!

I understand how you can blame some things on President Obama, but to say that he could not keep the country safe because there is a flu outbreak? That just beats it all in my book - let's take it one step further, why don't we?

This just goes to show that he is not capable of leading the world in that New World Order, so we better hurry up and find somebody else to do that!
And O's making it worse by FAR....blaming...sm
it on the last administration doesn't get it anymore, Amanda - it's now OBAMA'S watch and all he can do is spend, spend, spend. I guess it's gonna have to take you being broke while the big wheels sit back and laugh for you to get it? Sad, very very sad!
We're not holding our breath. Owning up
nm
James Montgomery, Esq. is holding a press

conference. Jesse Jackson, Jr. is "candidate #5" and he thinks Blagojevich should step aside and resign and let the Lt. Gov. take over. He states JJ, Jr. is qualified for the position. 


He states JJ, Jr. is not guity of anything. He is not worried about any consequences of this except the media frenzy that is being created by this. If the meeting between the Gov. and JJ, Jr. was taped, they have no concern over it.


He (JJ, Jr.) will be speaking with the investigators on Friday or Monday. He will be holding a press conference in 15-16 minutes.


There is a picture of her in a bathing suit holding
a gun...does that count?
so quit talking and start doing -- what's holding you
nm
It isn't the Navy holding her child support

The federal government has rules concerning how much of someone's paycheck that you can garnish.  I personally was in the Navy (in payroll of all things) and when I went through my divorce, the court ordered a whole $325 a month for 2 kids (both in daycare at $120/week/per kid).  We were both discharged just prior to the divorce and he purposely took a job that paid $6 an hour, working 20 hours a week.  The judge, out of the kindness of his heart, based the child support on him making $6/hr at 40 hours, not the 20 he was working.  He was capable of making more, but wanted to tick me off.  BUT, you cannot garnish more than 60% of ones wages and if back support is owed, not more than 65% with the 5% going to pay off the arreage. 


There are certain things that you can take into consideration when they garnish your wages (most states make it mandatory now).  In the military, they cannot include your food ration money, housing money, uniform money and whatever extras they have these days.  They can only include your base salary.  Being that military pay royally sucks, I can see where they are not handing over everything that is owed, especially if he is lower ranking. 


I know it bites the big one and I feel for your daughter, being that I have been there, but she can get through it and be stronger for it.  She needs to show her kids that she can hold her head up high and trudge on.  I'll keep her in my prayers.


Thinking good thoughts and holding him up...:-) nm
nm
Not bickering. Holding feet to fire. Like GP...
and I agreed to. Have a good night!
Time to stop blaming Clinton
..
If that's the case, I'm holding a bake sale.
If my sending money to Israel can help them buy bombs to nuke the Palestinians off the face of the planet, I'm cutting them a check right now.

KaBOOOOOOM!

Mazel tov!
Do you know how silly the libs sound by blaming everything
that happened in the last eight years on Bush?


I predict, that Obama will not take responsibility for anything that happens in next two years at least, maybe four....it will all be Bush's fault in some way.


And those won't be my words. They will be Obama's words.


Wait and see.


How much confidence can you have in president who takes no personal responsibility, or a Congress that takes no personal responsibility in their own legislation, blaming Bush for their own bailout legislation that they wrote?


Dems always change the rules.


It's happening again, slowly and surely.



I'm not predicting anything...just holding onto that new 4-letter word
YES WE CAN
Michelle Bachmann blaming Obama
//
Oh...forum domination. Someone holding your hands behind your back....
and preventing you from posting? Or don't you have a cause you care enough about TO post?
That was not the question....Gitmo is a holding area for terrorists...
The Hanoi Hilton housed American soldiers. And yes, I think it is VERY important that a presidential candidate is a patriot, has integrity, strong in the face of unimaginable pressure, and puts his country even before himself. Yes, I think all those are VERY strong criteria for the Presidency. Obama has nothing in his resume to indicate that he is that patriotic, that UNself-serving, showed that he put his fellow prisoners above himself...and you compare that to a terrorist in Gitmo. Good grief. ??
It's "phase"...... time to stop blaming Bush
@@
Yep...and today he is holding a town hall in France...
yukking it up with Europe as his own country circles the drain....pittiiiffullll.
You've got to be kidding me? Defending their actions and blaming on Bush?
Sure, they have a right to be "activists" and to march and to protest. They do not have a right to smash in windows and vandalize property. What's worse is that many of these are not ativists. They have NO IDEA what they are protesting against. Ask them who the vice president of our country is, they can't tell you. They are young foolish kids who think it's fun to be out there causing trouble and posing as "activists" with a cause. It's rather inane to equate these things with true activists.
Remember Bush holding hands with Prince Abdullah???
So as far as reading anything into Obama trying to get our nation back on the right track, thank God what was here before no longer around.
So you and your daughter have no problem with people who wish for people and their children sm
to burn in hell, call people's children ugly, etc. etc.  Well, you might not BE gt, but you might as well be.  Even the liberals don't agree with gt, or hadn't you noticed?  You might want to check that out and while you are at it, the conservative board has been a regular play pen since the liberals stopped their hateful dive bombing.  In fact, some really good conversations are taking place over there between both sides, which DOES NOT happen on this site. 
Bored people are BORING people.
nm
Is that how your people justify killing people?