He was a true patriot! I'll bet you are
Posted By: holycrap on 2008-09-23
In Reply to: Where were all the voters before? - mt
proud of him.
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That's true - and Barack Obama is a true Patriot too.
Again we can agree to disagree. How John McCain has voted goes against everything I want as a President, but there are an equal number of people to me who feel opposite. That's the way it goes.
Your last comment brought to mind how true that is. Being a true patriot is not harmful in a candidate. John McCain is a patriot. So is Barack Obama.
Sheehan, a true patriot
I have followed this courageous woman who sacrified her son for this war and I have nothing but praise and respect for her. She is a true American.
What wishing? It'll probably be true. Lots of hangovers on Wednesday from all the partying.
Not wishing anything on anybody. However, I bet you felt real good after you thought that your one liner up, didn't ya. But that's what we've come to expect from you, so it wasn't really a shock.
Add to that the Patriot Act..
They could not get the Patriot Act passed before 9/11. Read this Act. It is downright scary and at the very end it states "or other purposes." What "other purposes?"
yes. Patriot. nm
nm
Don't want a patriot, need someone
who is highly intelligent, who takes time to think through his/her decisions, not a shoot off the hip kind of guy.
what does this have to do with the patriot act?
nm
Now here's a patriot...Not..(sm)
Rush Limbaugh: *I Hope Obama Fails." Somebody's gotta say it.*
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_011609/content/01125113.guest.html
Maybe we should put that patriot act to good use....(sm)
like on the nuts at Fox News who are doing nothing but inciting violence.
http://leesearles.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/rightwingnuttery-glenn-beck-and-the-rise-of-fox-news-militia-media-edition/
Michael Moore a patriot? sm
in WHAT alternate universe? Investigate? He wouldn't know a true investigation if it bit him on his very large butt. During the last election when he called Americans in general and Democrats in particular stupid...well I guess he loves the country but holds the people in contempt...particularly liberals as that is what he said...a patriot? Well the founding fathers would spin in their graves on that one. LOL...omg. Michael Moore a patriot. LOL.
I didn't vote for or against the Patriot Act and neither did you....
Congress did. Obama voted to reauthorize it as well.
The Patriot Act has nothing whatsoever to do with communism. What would make you say that?
Patriot Act/health care
You mean HC, of course. She was not different than any other congress and senate members. Patriot Act parts 1 and 2 were passed BEFORE the Iraq War WMD Bush lies, people die justification based on faulty intelligence was revealed. It makes me crazy that it is still there and I truly hope to see it revised or scrapped sometime in the next 4 years.
I am asking you, seriously...do you know when you started feeling vulnerable to govt control? I feel that too, but I am sure for different reasons than you...and I really am interested to know what make you feel that way.
Obama's plan is not a socialist plan like the ones you are referring to. He is not taking free enterprise out of health care. He is proposing to open up the existing plan that now covers Congress, the senate and federal employees. I have looked at that plan. It offers a number of choices in terms of deductible amounts, types of coverage (HMO, PPO, etc), premium amounts and the like. Pre-existing conditions are covered under some of those plans, if not all of them. He is aiming his pre-existing changes toward private insurance companies as part of his health plan.
It works like any other group plan. If you broaden the base of employees (in this case, citizens added to the plan by CHOICE, not force), the premiums come down. The care remains the same. You are free to choose the plan that best suits your needs or elect to keep your existing insurance. For Obama, it is a question of giving people access to affordable health care. He is not suggesting to transfer tax dollars to create the kind of plan you are describing that you consider to be subpar.
What is TriCare? I have to leave for a little while, but when I get back I will try to retrieve the link I used to inspect the existing federal plan and if I find it, I will post it later this afternoon. BTW, I know I come on strong and use sarcasm to a fault when I feel I am dealing with a poster who I think (sometimes mistakenly) is either ill informed or showing disrespect...not when having healthy debates over differences in opinion, beliefs or ideology. Those debates end up being the most informative of all and are a lot more satisfying than just preaching to the choir.
Do you recall the pre-Patriot Act world?
when diverse viewpoints were at our fingertips and not dictated by Mega-Media outlets riding around in the pockets of political status quo? Not only has this dummed down American audiences nationwide, but it has been a direct assault on the democratic process.
Patriot Act provisions:
1. Law enforcement agencies authorized (and sometimes forced) to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial and other records without a warrant. This has been exercised against their own citizens, the most recent instance being voyeuristic easedropping on intimate conversations between American troops serving in Iraw and their spouses...right to privacy in 1st, 4th and 5th admendments notwithstanding.
2. Eased restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States. This has allowed them to expand their definition of terrorisim to include individuals and groups exercising their 1st amendment right to redress the government via political dissent.
3. Expanded the Secretary of the Treasury's authority to regulate financial transactions, particularly those involving foreign individuals and entities. An example of this would be freezing funds of a first generation natural born citizens sending money to their family members who still live overseas.
4. Enhances the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities in detaining and deporting SUSPECTED (not proven) of terrorism-related acts. This has not worked out well for many perfectly innocent citizens and permanent residents whose only crime is to have a Moslem name.
5. The act also expands the definition of terrorism to include domestic terrorism, thus enlarging the number of activities to which the USA Patriot Act’s expanded law enforcement powers can be applied.
Abuse of the Patriot Act has been rife and is the stuff of legend, as is the controversy that surrounds it. The erosion of civil right stemming from this one piece of legislation is breath-taking, but the mindset that created it....even more so. I will be voting for a candidate that shows at least some sort of awareness of civil rights. Those are the freedoms I worry about.
Huckabee forgot about the Patriot Act...
Ummm audacious? More control? I'm getting whiplash from looking behind in order to look ahead.
I guess our definitions of a Patriot differs
and I guess that's okay, but the truth will come out in the wash, eventually. All the media filters in the world will not keep the truth coming from coming out eventually, and we may all be surprised at what the truth actually is which may be drastically different than either one of our points of view.
Bush to criminalize his protesters under Patriot Act
By Patriot Daily
News Clearinghouse
1-13-6
George Bush wants to create the new criminal of disruptor who can be jailed for the crime of disruptive behavior. A little-noticed provision in the latest version of the Patriot Act will empower Secret Service to charge protesters with a new crime of disrupting major events including political conventions and the Olympics.
The Secret Service would also be empowered to charge persons with breaching security and to charge for entering a restricted area which is where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting. In short, be sure to stay in those wired, fenced containments or free speech zones.
Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse's diary:
Who is the disruptor? Bush Team history tells us the disruptor is an American citizen with the audacity to attend Bush events wearing a T-shirt that criticizes Bush; or a member of civil rights, environmental, anti-war or counter-recruiting groups who protest Bush policies; or a person who invades Bush's bubble by criticizing his policies. A disruptor is also a person who interferes in someone else's activity, such as interrupting Bush when he is speaking at a press conference or during an interview.
What are the parameters of the crime of disruptive behavior? The dictionary defines disruptive as characterized by unrest or disorder or insubordination. The American Medical Association defines disruptive behavior as a style of interaction with people that interferes with patient care, and can include behavior such as foul language; rude, loud or offensive comments; and intimidation of patients and family members.
What are the rules of engagement for disruptors? Some Bush Team history of their treatment of disruptors provide some clues on how this administration will treat disruptors in the future.
(1) People perceived as disruptors may be preemptively ejected from events before engaging in any disruptive conduct.
In the beginning of this war against disruptors, Americans were ejected from taxpayer funded events where Bush was speaking. At first the events were campaign rallies during the election, and then the disruptor ejectment policy was expanded to include Bush's post election campaign-style events on public policy issues on his agenda, such as informing the public on medicare reform and the like. If people drove to the event in a car with a bumper sticker that criticized Bush's policies or wore T-shirts with similar criticism, they were disruptors who could be ejected from the taxpayer event even before they engaged in any disruptive behavior. White House press secretary McClellan defended such ejectments as a proper preemptive strike against persons who may disrupt an event: If we think people are coming to the event to disrupt it, obviously, they're going to be asked to leave.
(2) Bush Team may check its vast array of databanks to cull out those persons who it deems having disruptor potential and then blacklist those persons from events.
The White House even has a list of persons it deems could be disruptive to an eventand then blacklists those persons from attending taxpayer funded events where Bush speaks. Sounds like Bush not only has the power to unilaterally designate people as enemy combatants in the global war on terror, but to unilaterally designate Americans as disruptive in the domestic war against free speech.
(3) The use of surveillance, monitoring and legal actions against disruptors.
Bush's war against disruptors was then elevated to surveillance, monitoring, and legal actions against disruptor organizations. The FBI conducts political surveillance and obtains intelligence filed in its database on Bush administration critics , such as civil rights groups (e.g., ACLU), antiwar protest groups (e.g., United for Peace and Justice) and environmental groups (e.g., Greenpeace).
This surveillance of American citizens exercising their constitutional rights has been done under the pretext of counterterrorism activities surrounding protests of the Iraq war and the Republican National Convention. The FBI maintains it does not have the intent to monitor political activities and that its surveillance and intelligence gathering is intended to prevent disruptive and criminal activity at demonstrations, not to quell free speech.
Surveillance of potential disruptors then graduated to legal actions as a preemptive strike against potential disruptive behavior at public events. In addition to monitoring and surveillance of legal groups and legal activities, the FBI issued subpoenas for members to appear before grand juries based on the FBI's intent to prevent disruptive convention protests. The Justice Dept. opened a criminal investigation and subpoenaed records of Internet messages posted by Bush`s critics. And, the Justice Dept. even indicted Greenpeace for a protest that was so lame the federal judge threw out the case.
So now the Patriot Act, which was argued before enactment as a measure to fight foreign terrorists, is being amended to make clear that it also applies to American citizens who have the audacity to disrupt President Bush wherever his bubble may travel. If this provision is enacted into law, then Bush will have a law upon which to expand the type of people who constitute disruptors and the type of activities that constitute disruptive activities. And, then throw them all in jail.
Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse
Obama voted to extend the Patriot Act...
just so you know. After he said he would work to repeal it. There's some honesty for ya. Frankly, I don't think throwing your pastor and mentor of 20 years under the bus for your political career is particularly moral either. But that is just me.
This should make **patriot** Cheney happy.
NM
The Patriot Act is up but some want to keep it, including Schumer. Don't blame Bush for that. nm
Please give examples of people violated by the Patriot Act
like rr said, Nancy Pelosi said she knows of no one who has been abused by the Patriot Act.
We lost our freedom with the last admin. - wire tapping, Patriot Act, etc....nm
x
I'll double that 'amen', and I'll raise you one!
amen
Oh. Well, they'll have to kill me before they'll censor
We'll see who'll be laughing tomorrow.
Bet it's me!
If O "fails", then you'll probably like him more cuz he'll
So when the terrorists come, you'll just say STOP or I'll say STOP again? nm
I'll be.
.
We'll see...
 Again, you might want to consider a bib for the drool...
Okay I'll say it again...
I condem sexual abuse and from AR says he/she does too, but please don't generalize the whole of conservatives because of what one guy did in Washington or Oregon. That would be like me saying that all liberals are responsible for what the extreme left is doing like burning down SUV dealerships in the name of environmental protection.
I'll tell ya
I'm 25 and in college. Right before Bush got re-elected, my Composition class was discussing the state of things (we had just read a sort of anti-war book). Anyway, I was the only one (aside from my Professor) that spoke up against the war in my class. The others were so angry with me (how dare I be unpatriotic!) that I was seriously afraid people were going to jump me or something!! The same thing happened in another class around the same time. I haven't had a class discussion about it since then, but I'd be curious to see if they all feel so passionately for the war now.
yes, i'll be around!
In an uncertain world, reason should prevail. Besides, I have an axe to grind. My chemo drug runs $6,000 per month (who can afford that). I have had to fight insurance companies like a pitbull with lipstick (kak). I have watched my entire life go down the toilet due to illness and I have worked hard my whole life, paid taxes, obeyed the law, etc., and now..........I can try to at least make an impact on something that means so much to future of our country.
And I'll bet YOU don't, right? We all have
I'll bet....
you voted for BUSH both times, too!!! Now that's good judgment. Bye-Bye Now, Bye-Bye.
well you'll just have to
keep on bein' that way, I guess.
we'll never know now, will we? sm
Obama never does anything that's not according to the script or teleprompter. That's why he looked so foolish at his press conference, with all his ers and uhs. Didn't have all his talking points memorized yet.
Who could believe that?
Yea, well, if you believe that you'll believe
Government does hope this stays as quite as possible until it already happens. Poster who spoke of Kent State knows exactly what I'm talking about. POLICE STATE!
"nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them". Citizens' rights are violated every day by our police with "tasers" and other "nonlethal" things but somehow they manage to kill. One guy practically bragging about how big he is and how the taser really hurt him. We already have tasers that police use and abuse. Perhaps you would like to tell me why military needs them on our streets.
If you think it is that benign, what the h@ll do they need equipment for controlling citizens for? Just like national ID sounds benign enough to those who refuse to see it for what it is. There are lots of things that seemed benign to some while your civil rights were being thrown in the toilet and then as time went by and people become complacent, BOOM, all of a sudden you find yourself screwed over and wonder how that ever happened! It was right under your nose.
Of course, it will all seem benign enough until reasons start appearing out of nowhere as to why military need to patrol our streets
"They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control"
hello....wake up!!! We have the police "force" for that. They do a fine enough job of interfering with our civil rights, what do you think the military will do.....hand you a cupcake and milk?
All you need to do is look at history in other countries to see how this seemingly harmless environment creeped into their lives and now their children grow up with military roaming the streets, monitoring "their" every move, until it seems perfectly normal to them....except for those who never accept the fact they are being controlled and those are ones who you see being trampled by their military while they try their best to protest for their freedom from government control.
Little by little by little.......
if ya'll can do about SP
x
I'll help you out here......
The Qur’an dehumanizes non-Muslims, describing them as “animals” and beasts:
Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (98:6)
Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (8:55)
Verse 5:60 even says that Allah transformed Jews of the past into apes and pigs. Verse 2:65 continues the theme.
Verse 7:176 compares unbelievers to "panting dogs" with regard to their idiocy and worthlessness.
A hadith says that Muhammad believed rats to be "mutated Jews" (Bukhari 54:524, also confirmed by Sahih Muslim 7135 and 7136).
Verses 46:29-35 even say that unbelieving men are worse than demons who believe in Muhammad.
I'll second that
While Billy was president I could not stand him (I voted for him the first time but after 6 months was disappointed and by the end of the first year with him I loathed him and cringed anyone I saw him or his wife "the anointed one". However, with all that has happened over the past few weeks he is finally starting to make sense.
I just think the country has done such a dis-service to Hillary and voted in a man that came from nowhere (and has done nothing).
I am glad Billy is finally starting to wise up and speak the truth.
sorry-I'll try again
Year Total income Gifts to charity Federal taxes
2000 $240,726 $2,350 $63,732
2001 $275,123 $1,470 $86,072
2002 $260,824 $1,050 $68,958
2003 $238,327 $3,400 $51,856
2004 $207,647 $2,500 $40,426
2005 $1,670,995 $77,315 $545,614
2006 $991,296 $60,307 $277,431
Well, I'll say this.........
making such a big deal out of "Joe the plumber" was pretty juvenile on the part of McCain and Palin. IMHO good ole Joe was probably a republican plant paid to ask that question but then what do I know?
something you'll never see on tv
Love the "disco pants!" Of course, SP would do it in a heartbeat with a smile on her face. They'd have to put Michelle in a straight jacket. Can't you just picture it?
The libs just don't have a sense of humor like the rest of us!
And to add to this so ya'll can
get all your slams on me at once. LOL
I also believe that people should have the right to protect themselves in their homes. If someone breaks into my home, I should have a right to shoot them. In my opinion, they took a risk breaking into my house. I am not going to take the chance of them hurting me or my kids. So don't break into my house because I will shoot you and then I will rip my clothes and beat my head into a wall to make it look like I was attacked and was using self defense. LOL!
I'll ask again.
WHICH question did Joe Biden NOT answer, as you alleged?
I'll add another bet. S/M
IF McCain/Palin get in the White House, I will bet that in 2012 the Republicans will have about as good a chance at getting back in as Hermann Munster!!!
Okay, I'll tell ya
#1. He is black. Never mind he is only HALF black, there are plenty of people who won't vote for him because of the color or his skin but it isn't p.c. to say this so they p.c. and say they WILL vote for him. When they close the curtain on the voting booth, I think they'll have a change of heart and punch the button for the one who is "like them." Remember Palin said he wasn't "like us."
#2. There have been so many smears against him I really believe that many people who don't care enough to investigate for themselves, just believe it "like sheeple" and so they go down the garden path.
#3. I think there are a lot of people who forget that John McCain is only one of many service men and women who have served their country. He is no more or less honorable than any of them but McCain keeps railing on "I served my country and I have the scars to prove it." and then whining that "all I ever wanted to be is a Navy pilot." So at the end I think a lot of people will feel if they don't vote for him they will somehow dishonor "his" service to our country.
The reason I don't think the Republicans will stand a chance is that after 8 years of Bush/Cheney and 4 more years of McCain/Palin, people will vote for anyone but....and maybe that's a good time for an independent with REAL values and REAL promise of change to show up.
Now, if I'm wrong, boil up the crow, I'll be here to eat it. LOL
I'll say it again
As a Jew, I don't believe there is a soul until the first breath is taken.
But, regardless of what I believe, I don't expect everyone to agree with me. It is clear what you believe and that is fine with me. I would never try to change it. I expect the same courtesy, that people allow me to believe as a Jew, as I was raised and studied, and not try to force your beliefs on me. I don't believe anyone should be forced into having an abortion, but I also don't believe anyone should be kept from having one either.
Again, I'll say it
My husband is there. No, we did not buy the ticket. Yes, he joined BEFORE the war, but he joined the military. It is silly to think that you can join a military and never expect to go to a war. Of course that is where the military sent them. This is their job. They chose their field and most of them support it.
I'll help if I can but can you help me
I'm not sure which post you're referring to but I'll be happy to re-find it for you if I can. I don't always post links because I would hope that people would research everything they can and make the best decision they can possibly make to bring about whatever change they believe in. As I've said, I read a lot but I have made my decisions based totally on what I have heard from the candidate's own mouths. I have come to the conclusion that I will take a chance on Obama versus McCain and that is due ONLY to what I have heard from both of them. McCain's constant reference to his war record has completely turned me off. Not that I don't respect his service but so far as I know we are not voting on "war hero of the year."
And just for the record....every day I am still watching BOTH candidates speeches at their rallies. I could still change my mind in the way I intend to vote if I heard something from EITHER candidate's mouth that would sway me....and that being something of SUBSTANCE that would make me change my mind about which one I am willing to take a chance on. I will continue with that inquisitive mind until about 8 a.m. next Tuesday when I go to cast my vote.....so I guess you could call me one of the "undecided." Maybe the other "undecideds" feel the same as I do. I don't call myself "undecided" because I have made a decision and the other candidate has a couple of days to make me change my mind but I doubt he will because it will take more than railing against "that one" to change my mind.
I'll think about it lol
i'll have to take a vote! :-D
I'll second all the above! (sm)
We need more people like you. Thanks for sharing!
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