Government computers used to check out Joe the Plumber...
Posted By: sm on 2008-10-25
In Reply to:
|
Investigators trying to determine whether access was illegal
Friday, October 24, 2008 8:57 PM
By Randy Ludlow
The Columbus Dispatch
"State and local officials are investigating if state and law-enforcement computer systems were illegally accessed when they were tapped for personal information about "Joe the Plumber."
Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher became part of the national political lexicon Oct. 15 when Republican presidential candidate John McCain mentioned him frequently during his final debate with Democrat Barack Obama.
The 34-year-old from the Toledo suburb of Holland is held out by McCain as an example of an American who would be harmed by Obama's tax proposals.
Public records requested by The Dispatch disclose that information on Wurzelbacher's driver's license or his sport-utility vehicle was pulled from the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles database three times shortly after the debate.
Information on Wurzelbacher was accessed by accounts assigned to the office of Ohio Attorney General Nancy H. Rogers, the Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency and the Toledo Police Department.
It has not been determined who checked on Wurzelbacher, or why. Direct access to driver's license and vehicle registration information from BMV computers is restricted to legitimate law enforcement and government business. |
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Joe the Plumber wasn't running for a top government job. nm
*
Don't forget our computers!
I received an intrusion alarm when I booted mine up this morning. Don't know if a hacker is after some personal information or if it's my friendly government stalking me because I disagree with Bush's policies.
Be careful where you surf. Big Brother might be watching.
FBI Examines Computers in Cheney's Office
FBI Examines Computers in Cheney's Office
By MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press Writer
Thursday, October 6, 2005
(10-06) 23:36 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --
FBI agents examined computers in Vice President Dick Cheney's office and talked to former and current White House aides Thursday as they investigated an FBI intelligence analyst accused of passing classified information to Filipino officials.
Meantime, former Philippine President Joseph Estrada acknowledged receiving an internal U.S. government report on the Philippines from the analyst, Leandro Aragoncillo, but played down the importance of the information, comparing it to material aired in his country's media.
The FBI is looking at whether Aragoncillo, a former Marine, took classified information about the Philippines from the White House when he worked for Vice Presidents Al Gore and Cheney from 1999 to 2002.
The type of information has not been disclosed. Though Aragoncillo had top-secret clearance, that status would not have made him privy to highly sensitive intelligence.
Aragoncillo, a U.S. citizen originally from the Philippines, was charged last month with providing classified information from his FBI posting at Fort Monmouth, N.J., to former and current Philippine officials who oppose President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo. Philippine Justice Secretary Raul Gonzales said the criminal complaint against Aragoncillo suggests the information could have been intended to destabilize the Philippine government.
Michael Ray Aquino, a former top Philippine police official who acted as Aragoncillo's alleged go-between, was indicted by a Newark, N.J., federal grand jury Thursday on charges of conspiracy and acting as an unregistered foreign agent. Aragoncillo, 46, of Woodbury, N.J., and Aquino, 39, living in Queens, N.Y., have been jailed since their arrests last month.
Federal prosecutors in Newark did not seek an indictment against Aragoncillo because he is negotiating a plea, court records show.
Aquino lawyer Mark A. Berman said his client rejected a plea deal.
There's a fundamental difference between Aragoncillo and Aquino, Berman said. Aquino is not an FBI agent and had no reason to know that the information the government laid out in the indictment was classified.
While the criminal complaint is limited to Aragoncillo's time at Fort Monmouth the investigation has widened to include his stint, while a Marine, in the vice president's office. Agents examined computers and interviewed current and former vice presidential aides Thursday, according to a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.
FBI spokesman Rich Kolko would not confirm details of the investigation, but he said, In the course of a logical investigation, the FBI will research the subject's entire career for whenever he had access to classified or sensitive information to see whether any illegal or improper activity took place.
Meantime, Estrada said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press in the Philippines that he received documents from Aragoncillo but that he did not think they contained classified information.
He was just describing how America sees the Philippines, Estrada said. I don't think that is classified. It pertains to graft and corruption, the first gentleman (Arroyo's husband).
Estrada said he met Aragoncillo during his state visit to Washington in 2000 and received about six reports from him.
He compared what Aragoncillo did with reports diplomats send back home. I don't think that's espionage, he said.
He's a kind person, the former president said of Aragoncillo. He's a good family man. He has two children.
Estrada said Aragoncillo communicated with him by mail and also spoke with him on his birthday, but he didn't say when. Estrada was toppled in massive street protests in 2001 on charges of corruption and is under house arrests while on trial.
A Philippine opposition senator has acknowledged receiving information from Aquino. Sen. Panfilo Lacson, a former national police chief under whom Aquino served, said he and many others received information passed by Aquino, but he played down the value of the reports, describing them as shallow information.
White House and Justice Department officials declined to comment on the investigation.
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., a former federal prosecutor who handled an FBI spy case, said the Aragoncillo case raises questions about easy access to classified materials and how long the naturalized U.S. citizen was able to pass on sensitive information before he was stopped.
If the complaint is accurate, there is a wealth of evidence which makes it all the more surprising he went undiscovered as long as he did, because it was not a very sophisticated operation, Schiff said.
Aragoncillo was hired to work at Fort Monmouth in July 2004 and began sending classified information and documents in January, often via e-mail, according to an FBI complaint made public last month. The documents' contents have not been made public.
From May to Aug. 15 of this year, he printed or downloaded 101 classified documents relating to the Philippines, of which 37 were classified secret, according to the criminal complaint.
He sent some of the material to Aquino, the complaint said.
Aragoncillo's public defender, Chester M. Keller, declined to say if his client was cooperating with investigators. It's just too sensitive right now, Keller said.
___
Associated Press reporter Jim Gomez in Manila and Jeffrey Gold in Newark, N.J., contributed to this report.
Inmates got hold of the computers at the asylum again...nm
nm
Okay, smartie, because computers and phones are not people
then nobody's privacy is being violated since computers and phones are not people.
Give it up....this whole snoopgate thing is stupid.
Nancy Pelosi said recently said that there have been no gross violations of the Patriot act, so all this paranoia is basically another Dem attempt to try and take down the president, and again won't work.
Obama/McCain computers hacked
during election campaign.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5105027.ece
My husband heard on the news this morning that Obama is asking again for 900 Billon to add to our deficit for his tax plan. I want to see more jobs like McCain wanted, not more unemployment and more deficit.
More Double-0 Bush spying, this time on our computers
NSA Web Site Places 'Cookies' on Computers
By ANICK JESDANUN, AP Internet WriterThu Dec
29, 7:24 AM ET
The National Security Agency's Internet site has been placing files on
visitors' computers that can track their Web surfing activity despite strict
federal rules banning most of them.
These files, known as cookies, disappeared after a privacy activist
complained and The Associated Press made inquiries this week, and agency
officials acknowledged Wednesday they had made a mistake. Nonetheless, the issue
raises questions about privacy at a spy agency already on the defensive amid
reports of a secretive eavesdropping program in the United States.
Considering the surveillance power the NSA has, cookies are not exactly a
major concern, said Ari Schwartz, associate director at the Center for Democracy
and Technology, a privacy advocacy group in Washington, D.C. But it does show a
general lack of understanding about privacy rules when they are not even
following the government's very basic rules for Web privacy.
Until Tuesday, the NSA site created two cookie files that do not expire until
2035 — likely beyond the life of any computer in use today.
Don Weber, an NSA spokesman, said in a statement Wednesday that the cookie
use resulted from a recent software upgrade. Normally, the site uses temporary,
permissible cookies that are automatically deleted when users close their Web
browsers, he said, but the software in use shipped with persistent cookies
already on.
After being tipped to the issue, we immediately disabled the cookies, he
said.
Cookies are widely used at commercial Web sites and can make Internet
browsing more convenient by letting sites remember user preferences. For
instance, visitors would not have to repeatedly enter passwords at sites that
require them.
But privacy advocates complain that cookies can also track Web surfing, even
if no personal information is actually collected.
In a 2003 memo, the White House's Office of Management and Budget prohibits
federal agencies from using persistent cookies — those that aren't automatically
deleted right away — unless there is a compelling need.
A senior official must sign off on any such use, and an agency that uses them
must disclose and detail their use in its privacy policy.
Peter Swire, a Clinton administration official who had drafted an earlier
version of the cookie guidelines, said clear notice is a must, and `vague
assertions of national security, such as exist in the NSA policy, are not
sufficient.
Daniel Brandt, a privacy activist who discovered the NSA cookies, said
mistakes happen, but in any case, it's illegal. The (guideline) doesn't say
anything about doing it accidentally.
The Bush administration has come under fire recently over reports it
authorized NSA to secretly spy on e-mail and phone calls without court
orders.
Since The New York Times disclosed the domestic spying program earlier this
month, President Bush has stressed that his executive order allowing the
eavesdropping was limited to people with known links to al-Qaida.
But on its Web site Friday, the Times reported that the NSA, with help from
American telecommunications companies, obtained broader access to streams of
domestic and international communications.
The NSA's cookie use is unrelated, and Weber said it was strictly to improve
the surfing experience and not to collect personal user data.
Richard M. Smith, a security consultant in Cambridge, Mass., questions
whether persistent cookies would even be of much use to the NSA. They are great
for news and other sites with repeat visitors, he said, but the NSA's site does
not appear to have enough fresh content to warrant more than occasional
visits.
The government first issued strict rules on cookies in 2000 after disclosures
that the White House drug policy office had used the technology to track
computer users viewing its online anti-drug advertising. Even a year later, a
congressional study found 300 cookies still on the Web sites of 23 agencies.
In 2002, the CIA removed cookies it had inadvertently placed at one of its
sites after Brandt called it to the agency's attention.
You have to check and double check every single thing they say. They're not capable of telling t
truth about anything. It's getting very boring and tedious to read their crap. Why won't they stay on their own board like they tell us to do?
Just Like Joe the Plumber...
Her 15 minutes of fame.
Joe the Plumber
How many of us employ attorneys? Do you have a publicist? Are you in the middle of negotiating a book deal? There must be thousands of middle class citizens trying to close a contract on a country and western CD release. Thinking about running for Congress? Stumping for the reds, declaring in no uncertain terms Obama is Marxist for reasons you cannot put your finger on and is anti-Israel for reasons you cannot explain? I can't decide who is better at the snow job...McCain with his Joe the Plumber get-out-the-vote chant or Joe the Plumber with his 15-minute opportunism. Judgment? Vet deficit? Makes a mockery of his own campaign, still in search of a coherent message and no identifiable theme in sight.
Exactly right!...Joe, the Plumber
himself said that he was CALLED and told to go this this rallye!
I wonder what else they told him?
Joe the Plumber?
We need to get out of cartoon land and realize that we've made the right decision.
How many posts have you seen where our wages are falling? Can we fix it? Yes we can and not by giving in to the criticism by the republicans with statements like "I'll qualify for food stamps."
That Joe guy isn't even a licensed plumber
He is thinking of buying a plumbing business. You don't have to be licensed in Ohio. You can say plumbers are not rich but he is planning on making over $250K. Get your head out of your...
The plumber would be making $250 k and
it would be 36 percent tax and 39 percent, which is 3 percent more, on the amount over 250K. That's pretty rich. Keep on typing, dope.
Poor Joe the Plumber is going to have
to worry about paying taxes. Turns out he doesn't have a plumber's license nor does his employer which is required by the county. No license, no work, no taxes. Poor Joe.
Google Joe the plumber 40,000 and
nm
Joe The Plumber Rocks
Funny how this plumber was the go-to guy until he struck a cord with "regular Americans." The drive-bys loathe him, and also have no clue how hard he works. When he dropped the "S" (socialism) card, they went totally nuts.
This is a perfect example of elitism. They just don't get it that he wants to decide how he'll spend his own money. For those of you who are too insecure to make those decisions, go ahead, but leave the rest of us alone!
Are y'all really so pathetic that you don't trust your own judgement as to how to spend your own money? Look at how well the gov't handles things already: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the mail service, etc.?
Unbelievable!
You know well I was not talking about Joe the NON-plumber!
/
What about his comment to Joe the Plumber?
I mean I know Joe has been discredited, but Obama did say he was going to take some from Joe to help out those below him. That's basically the same thing isn't it?
Like I've said before, I have no issue with helping legitimately needy people. But there are so many people out there who are just LAZY and unwilling to work and having more and more children just to get more foodstamps that it's not fair. We don't need to tax more. We need to take a good long hard look at our welfare program and the participants and weed out the ones who are just using the system.
Last weekend we had a community clean up day at our church. Our church is in the middle of a trailer park community with a lot of Hispanic, black, and white members, all low income, all living in suboptimal living conditions. We went around and picked up trash on the road and helped people clean trash out of their yards. Our hope was to help the community take pride in where they live and to come alongside one another to make it a cleaner and safer place for them and their children. Out of at least 100 residents in that area, maybe 3 helped us. Most of them just watched, and some even got upset when we couldn't get everything out of their yards. Instead of coming out and working alongside us, some acted like it was owed to them. Now of course being a church our main hope was to build relationships and eventually teach them about Jesus, but our short term hope was just to build a sense of community in this down trodden area.
I stopped and talked to one girl, about my age, who has two small children, 3 and 1, I believe. She asked me why I didn't have a child yet. I told her that besides the fact that I'm still in school, we can't afford to have kids yet. She said "Oh don't worry! If you can't afford it the state will take care of them for you!" She told me she doesn't work, but her boyfriend does. They won't get married because she might lose her "benefits". I offered to set her up with one of the girls in my youth class that babysits if she wanted to get a part time job, but she doesn't want to work. And I don't think it was because she wants to be home with her children. At any rate, welfare is not supposed to be a way for you to be a stay at home mom.
That line of thinking is all too common nowadays. Would my husband and I like to have a child? Yes, definitely. I have always wanted to be a young mom (not like 16, but early 20s). But it would be selfish of us to have a child knowing we can't afford to take care of one right now.
We have to stop enabling this laziness and lack of ambition. I think Obama should at least hold off on the taxing if he becomes president until there is a thorough investigation into our welfare system. If he wants to create more jobs, hire a slew of caseworkers to work one on one with these families who have been on welfare for so long and find out WHY. It's supposed to be a helping hand in times of need, not a way of living.
Another thing I fear is the fact that with a democratic congress and president, very soon it may be so a preacher cannot preach what is in the Bible in a church. As a Christian, I'm sure you know that the Bible speaks against other false religions. From what I understand with talking with my father-in-law a.k.a. my pastor, there are issues being discussed that will limit what he can say from the podium. Now my FIL is not a hateful man by any means, but he is going to preach straight from the Bible, and he isn't just going to skip parts that may offend someone else. I don't know the whole story behind this, but if it's true, we may be in for more trouble then we imagine.
All we can pray for is that God will work in the heart of whomever gets into the white house and our senate and congress. But the more and more I see, I truly believe judgment is coming upon us.
or a plumber in hot pants
:)
plumber lied about
his plans to buy a business as he had no money. No plumbing license. Owed back taxes. Was on welfare. He was a fictious dupe who tried to grab the spotlight for his own fortune. How's that book and record deal going?
Yes, Joe was an actual plumber...
...living in Ohio, throwing a football with his son in the front yard when the whole Obamarama came down his street and Obama invited Joe to ask a question. Joe asked: If you are elected, are you going to raise my taxes? Obama answered: It's good to spread the wealth around and give everyone the advantages you've had.
Joe was obviously planted in his own front yard just to sandbag Obama with a trick question and entrap him into revealing the true agenda. Republicans are so devious!
What happened after this was extremely interesting. Media started to investigate Joe as though he were a candidate, not just Joe Citizen.
They unearthed and published the information that he was not even a licensed plumber. (In fact, no license was legally required because he was an employee, although he was working toward buying the plumbing business.) His trash was stolen from in front of his house - a standard investigative technique. Joe's driving record was accessed - illegally - and details made public. I think I even remember hearing he owed some money to the IRS.
His OJFS records were accessed several times (Ohio Job and Family Services are the ones who administer unemployment, child support, etc.) and, mysteriously, information about his divorce and child support ended up in the news. The (dem) head of OJFS then tried to cover by saying this is common practice anytime a person becomes a celebrity. However, this was easily disproved. (The woman was allowed to resign. She and two assistants are the ones being sued.)
All for having the poor judgment to ask a question of Obama, when invited to. A lot has been said over the yeas about Nixon and his enemies list, but our new president is someone not to be crossed, not by a Joe Citizen, certainly not by a Limbaugh.
Get 'em, Joe!
Joe the Plumber had to get back in the spotlight -
http://www.comcast.net/news/video/958491392/plumberappalledbymccainposition/
Then go be a plumber and stop bitching about
!!
For all those O lovers who jumped on the plumber
Obama stated today, while trying to turn the plumber thing back towards McCain as if he NEVER said "spread the wealth" this.......
"How many of you know a plumber that makes half a million dollars?". McCain never said that, Obama did. Obama told the plumber that the business he was looking at buying which may or may not make 250K would be taxed to "spread the wealth" around. Boy, he's desperate now.
Now for all those O lovers who have had such a hatred all of a sudden of a "rich" plumber, how ya gonna back peddle on that one? You and Obama need to get on the same page...... now even Obama says a plumber can't make 250K! What a joke he is.
uhh... Joe the Plumber is not running for VP, leave
nm
Plumber and back pedaling. s/m
I am not about to back pedal. 1) Anyone knows that a plumber doesn't make $250,000 annually. 2) Anyone who has ever paid a plumber knows that a PLUMBING CONTRACTOR could make $250,000 and more.
Joe the Plumber doesn't look or act smart enough to be a plumbing contractor and making $40,000 annually it's not likely he could buy a plumbing business. But then on the other hand, my plumber son laughs and says, "all you have to know to be a plumber is that sh!t doesn't run uphill and that payday is on Friday." LOL Hearing JM talk, one would think "his buddy, Joe the Plumber" was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
If SP and Joe The Plumber have saved McCain, God help us all! n/m
!
Plumber does not mitigate fact that McC has yet
in debates/stump. That's why O is leading among middle class voters in the polls. Joe the plumber was not exactly dealing with a full deck. Democrat party embodies a huge chunk of HONEST hard-working class Americans and the next time the party vets a poster boy, they might try to come up with something more plausible and bust-proof in terms of verifiable background.
The unlicensed one posed the question of tax. Raising taxes and giving tax cuts are American as apple pie and are a practices employed by both political parties. No need to go bonkers over the "S" card since it is a word-mince game conjured up by a desperate campaign to muddy the econmic waters and run the clock out in terms of avoiding McClone's 90% W support and the mirror image he projects to voters in terms of the current economic crisis.
Aren't we full of paradox this morning? First we're deadbeats, then we are elite. This camp cannot demonstrate even the most rudimentary understanding of basic economic concepts, unless of course that "E" card is meant as a slam toward educated folks who make them feel insecure and defensive.
We do not need your advice on what we should be examining. What we are looking at here are our mounting credit card bills, some of which are hiking interest rates into the 22% category, our frozen banks and their stocks being bought up with tax bucks, the foreclosed homes that are dotting our landscape and bringing down our property values, bail-out schemes that tax our great-grandchildren, AIG spa parties and pheasant hunts, the stock market roller coaster, 401Ks diminished by 38% in value, skyrocketing cost of food, job losses, plunging retail index going into the holiday season, rising unemployment, job losses, stagnant wages, inaccessible health care coverage, obscene costs of medical care and prescription drugs...all in the afermath of trickle down.
This Joe the Plumber is supposed to represent
Well this is a quote from Joe the Plumber.
"The media's worried about whether I've paid my taxes, they're worried about any number of silly things that have nothing to do with America," Wurzelbacher told the former Republican presidential hopeful on his show, "Huckabee."
This is what is so funny. In Joe's eyes "taxes" are silly things. So, you see he's not worried at all about his taxes being raised IF he were to purchase a company. He thinks taxes are silly and have nothing to do with America. So, you don't think we're footing this Joe the Plumber's bill already?????  He can't even pay his own taxes. How will he ever purchase a company worth more than $250,000.00 with an "outstanding" bill?
Obama said...from his own mouth...to Joe the Plumber....
when Joe said, "Why do you want to tax me more?" to which Obama replied: "It's not that I want to tax you more. I think the guys below Joe deserve a shot too." I agree with that..just not the way Obama wants. They deserve the SAME shot JOE had. Work several years to GET to the point where you can buy a business...like JOE has. Don't TAX the JOES of the world MORE so you can cut people who have not worked that hard a check for which they did NOTHING. That is not fair, gourdpainter. No way is that FAIR.
Why not have a straight across the board percentage tax, no deductions, no NOTHING. Yes, the rich would pay more than the poor because they make more, but it would be FAIR. It would not be taxing any class of people at a HIGHER rate and divying it out to the ones below them who did NOTHING to earn it.
Obama is a socialist. He says so in his plans, he said so to Joe the Plumber. Why aren't you listening?
:-)
AMEN COREY!!!! We need more like you and Joe the plumber. nm
nm
Did Joe the Plumber ever pay his back taxes?
nm
here was Joe the Plumber and then Rick Santelli. nm
xxx
Joe the plumber not licensed, makes $40,000 a year,
a registered republican. What a difference a day makes.
There is no relevance to explain. Joe the unlicensed plumber
nm
McCain has 2 gimmicks Palin and Joe the Plumber sm
Joe is not even licensed and he makes $40K a year. He will benefit under Barack's plan but he is such a redneck he is brainwashed and probably watches Fox. He was not just discovered either.
McCain cheapens his campaign with the plumber sm
McCain Pals With Plumber, Cheapens Campaign: Margaret Carlson
Commentary by Margaret Carlson
Oct. 17 (Bloomberg) -- You'd hope a process that we've had 40 years to improve would be better than our presidential debates. We've tweaked around the edges, and one moderator beats a panel of them. Bob Schieffer did a superior job and was persistent at Wednesday night's debate. Yet no moderator is ever going to get the candidates to talk to each other, much less look one another in the eye.
Why not no moderator? It worked for the Lincoln-Douglas debates, where people stood in the hot sun for hours to listen.
The most dispiriting thing to come out of the debate was the morning after. I woke to see Joe Wurzelbacher's street in Holland, Ohio, lit up like Times Square with network and cable satellite trucks clogging the place.
I thought the press was beyond 23 mentions of Joe the Plumber by one candidate and three by the other, while Asian markets were dropping 10 percent and the Dow has been diving.
Unless he starts making courtesy calls to fix the running toilets of the journalists making him famous, let's relegate Joe the Plumber back to the playroom with Bob the Builder or the 15- minute hall of fame with Harry and Louise and Ross Perot's crazy aunt in the attic.
Here's the reason for Joe: McCain has no argument left except that no one should have to pay taxes, and that Obama isn't one of us.
Distasteful Tactics
He gave up the experience argument by choosing Sarah Palin. By his own admission, McCain was never on top of the economy, and his performance since the financial crisis began, lurching from one pronouncement to another, proved his self-assessment right.
What McCain has instead are the distasteful tactics pressed on him by his consultants, the very ones who defamed him in his 2000 race for the presidency.
That's where ``Obama is palling around with terrorists'' comes from. It's why in the final debate, more time was spent on a radical bomb-thrower from the ླྀs, William Ayers, than Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and his so-far-unsuccessful attempts to stop a market meltdown.
At first, I thought McCain was going to drop Ayers when he said he didn't care about ``an old, washed-up terrorist.'' Then he pivoted and demanded to know ``the full extent'' of his relationship with Obama.
Happy to Oblige
Obama was happy to oblige. Ayers, who committed his violent acts when Obama was a boy, is not and never has been involved in his campaign. Obama condemned his ``despicable acts'' and pointed out that he once served on a board with Ayers that was filled with Republican luminaries and funded by another one, Walter Annenberg. Thanks to McCain, Obama got to explain that before 30 million people.
McCain also gave Obama a chance to answer another charge. McCain is trying to make an oak out of Acorn, a community- organizing group that runs voter-registration drives. McCain said Acorn was about to perpetrate the biggest voter fraud in history, ``destroying the fabric of democracy.''
Acorn doesn't register voters; only state officials can do that. The false names collected are easy to spot. It's an urban myth that Donald Duck and Harry Potter end up voting. The ones that slip through are infinitesimal.
Old Hat
Obama explained his prior association. ``I represented them alongside the U.S. Justice Department'' enforcing the Illinois motor-voter law.
It's old hat for Republicans to cry voter fraud just the way Democrats cry voter suppression for purged lists, long lines and election-day challenges. If I show up on the list as Margaret B. Carlson but I've since dropped the B and have a driver's license that says Margaret Carlson, I might be turned away.
Most of McCain's anger was non-verbal -- in his tense, coiled body, eye-rolls, sniffing, and forced smiles. He had to know Ayers wasn't going to work. But there comes a moment when a candidate has to fluff up the base or find himself lonely.
Already, McCain has lost the support of some brand-name conservatives with his choice of Palin as a running mate. The latest is author Christopher Buckley, who had to resign from National Review, the magazine his father, William Buckley, founded, for his apostasy.
Following Rush
With Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity attacking Ayers for three weeks, McCain would have been fired by his own party before the election if he'd held back.
I'm not sure he can count on Palin anymore. She told Limbaugh she had nothing to lose, and she's acting like it. She was openly critical of McCain's decision to pull out of Michigan, and insisted that she and her husband would happily campaign there.
She's supposed to wield a hatchet, not throw bombs. The one genuine emotional moment in the debate came when McCain said how saddened he was about Representative John Lewis's reaction to the hateful language at Palin's rallies. Obama agreed that Lewis went too far in coupling McCain with George Wallace, but the rebuke stung.
Only a short time ago, McCain had named Lewis as one of his heroes.
Those writing McCain's obituary (which I'm not; he lost the debates not the election) wrongly say that Palin wins no matter what. The campaign has revealed a petty politician who misused her office, got revenge on her enemies, turned on fellow Republicans when it suited her ambitions, and violated ethics laws by trying to get her brother-in-law fired.
McCain's best chance of winning is by doing what he did when his campaign was pronounced dead last year. Fire people. Drop the cheap shots. Go out on your own and barnstorm the country. Be serious about the broken country President George W. Bush is leaving us. Reclaim the patrimony of the McCains and win -- or lose -- with honor.
Obama made it very clear to Joe the Plumber....
Were you listening? He explained it very clearly. He was going to tax Joe at a higher rate and give that money to people "below Joe" so "they would have a chance too." That is NOT American, that is socialism. Out of Obama's own mouth. The man is a socialist, and because you refuse to see it or see it and don't care, it does not make it less true.
To use your words...run and hide if you like.
JT Plumber and family former welfare recipients.
does this mean he turns out to be an ex-commie deadbeat or what?
"Joe the Plumber" legislation introduced...
Ohio has 2 representatives introducing legislation so that the leaks that took place about Joe's child-support, taxes, etc hopefully won't happen again. Although, w/ the rules concerning confidentiality, it shouldn't have happened to begin with. The head of Dept of Family & Human Services is on an unpaid month's suspension for this AND for using State computers to raise money for Obama's campaign.
Two state lawmakers today, Dec. 2, introduced legislation that’s supposed to prevent the kind of government snooping that dogged “Joe the Plumber” - Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher - during the presidential campaign
The legislation, introduced by Rep. Shannon Jones, R-Springboro, and Sen. Mark Wagoner, R-Toledo, would direct state agencies to:
*Fire any unclassified employee who violates privacy rules by improperly accessing confidential personal information.
*Set criteria for determining which employees may access or authorize access to confidential, personal information.
*Allow any citizen to make a written request to an agency or identify all personal, confidential information on that person maintained by the agency.
“The systematic misuse of government databases and the governor’s woeful under reaction to state government workers engaging in this outrageous behavior makes this bill necessary,” Jones said in a press release.
Strickland suspended director Helen Jones-Kelley of the Ohio Job and Family Services Department for a month without pay for her role in the “Joe the Plumber” case. Four other employees also were disciplined.
Ohio Inspector Tom Charles concluded that Jones-Kelley improperly authorized the searches of databases with personal information on Wurzelbacher of suburban Toledo. He became a key figure in the Ohio presidential campaign after questioning Democrat Barack Obama’s tax plans.
Obama to Plumber: My Plan Will 'Spread the Wealth Around'....sm
FYI: Last night, couldn't find this story on the Internet, as the "powers that be" in the liberal media, attempted to scrub this story clean off the Internet, much the way they changed that SNL skit that was truthful on the whole liberal democratic responsbility on the FM/FM mess. They took out the facts of the blame to the dems, and reposted it on the Internet. They are trying to rewrite history, and that should make us very, very upset.
Anyway, found this story again this morning on Fox, and very hard to find the "whole story" elsewhere on the web, as some of it has "been scrubbed clean"
Obama to Plumber: My Plan Will 'Spread the Wealth Around'
Barack Obama tells a plumber in Ohio he wants to "spread the wealth around," eliciting criticism that his economic recovery plan is socialist in nature.
FOXNews.com
Monday, October 13, 2008
Barack Obama told a tax-burdened plumber over the weekend that his economic philosophy is to "spread the wealth around" -- a comment that may only draw fire from riled-up John McCain supporters who have taken to calling Obama a "socialist" at the Republican's rallies.
Obama made the remark, caught on camera, after fielding some tough questions from the plumber Sunday in Ohio, where the Democratic candidate canvassed neighborhoods and encouraged residents to vote early.
"Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?" the plumber asked, complaining that he was being taxed "more and more for fulfilling the American dream."
"It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success too," Obama responded. "My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."
Obama's remarks drew fresh criticism on the blogosphere that the Illinois senator favors a breed of wealth redistribution -- as well as a rebuke from the McCain campaign.
"If Barack Obama's goal as President is to 'spread the wealth around,' perhaps his unconditional meetings with Hugo Chavez, Raul Castro, and Kim Jong-Il aren't so crazy -- if nothing else they can advise an Obama administration on economic policy," McCain spokesman Michael Goldfarb said in a written statement to FOXNews.com. "In contrast, John McCain's goal as president will be to let the American people prosper unburdened by government and ever higher taxes."
Obama frequently rails against what he calls a Republican concept that tax breaks for the wealthy will somehow "trickle down" to middle-class Americans.
Obama says he will not raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 a year.
However, McCain's aides and supporters argue that Obama wrongly wants to raise taxes on businesses in a time of economic distress.
Both candidates spent Monday discussing how they would resurrect the ailing economy. McCain again pointed to his plan to buy up cumbersome mortgages from homeowners and renegotiate them. Obama unveiled what he called an economic rescue plan for the middle class, which included a 90-day moratorium on foreclosures.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/13/obama-plumber-plan-spread-wealth/
What is so interesting that Joe the Plumber has to hire a publicist team? nm
x
Joe the plumber was a plant! Talk radio knew about him BEFORE he asked Obama a question
He is related to Charles Keating of the Keating 5 scandal that McCain was involved in.
They don't want to run the government...
You are exactly right. And that is twisted beyond belief in my opinion. That has absolutely nothing to do with protecting this country or what is best for the country as a whole. It is personal, and like you said, revenge. I wish every state in the nation would do a recall of senators and reps if they start down that road, though I doubt that would ever happen. I saw another post that likened it to fiddling while Rome is burning. They just really do not have a clue. Not a clue.
You bet the government could come up...
with the money to fund the rest. It's called raising taxes, the Democratic mantra. What would Jesus do? I have no doubt that Jesus would say it was the responsibility of parents to take care of their children, for one. I am sure he would also say that a country that murders millions of babies every year has bigger problems than free health care. I am thinking it would be hard to take you seriously. But that is just me.
Don't get me wrong. I think the rest of us should take care of those who truly cannot take care of themselves. I just do not believe this qualifies. Instead of making the hard choices, trying to cut costs, finding better ways to make health care more affordable by tax cuts for those who pay health care premiums, etc., the Democrats want to do what they do so well...dangle something "free" in faces of people at election time. Clinton promised it, and what they came up with was socialized medicine, which went nowhere, thank God. Democrats just want to add entitlement after entitlement, tax us into oblivion and keep us tied to the government apron strings. Otherwise they would look at solutions like tax cuts for those who pay their insurance premiums. But..oh wait. You don't want that. Because you have to pay the premiums to get the tax break, and you don't want to pay the premiums. Pardon me if I don't want to fund that logic.
Truly destitute people, yes, those truly in need we should do everything we can to help them and do. A family of 4 making 80K is not destitute.
How about this. If you want on SCHIP, you have to sign a paper acknowledging they are going to take an additional 3% in income tax on you from now on to offset it. In return you get your "free" health care for your children. No taxes raised on anyone else, including smokers (and no I don't smoke, but I don't think it is any worse asking smokers to pay for expansion of the program if you are not willing to pay for it yourself, after all, you are going to be a user of it).
That sounds like a fine idea to me. Oh, and raise income taxes on all Democrats 3%. That should cover it. Expand the program, users and Democrats pay for it. Sounds like a plan to me. Don't know what you make, but it would surely come to less than $12K a year.
Run that one by your Democratic congressman.
Have a good night!
so let the government tell us??
Sorry, I want less government intervention, not more, in my life.
How do you think the government will
continue to spend when they can't collect taxes to spend because most people don't have jobs and are in need of welfare????? SOOOOO okay, let's keep fighting about party affiliation. *IF* Obama is elected I sure hope he turns out to be the modern day FDR.
Government
When a president decides to buy banks, they call that FASCISM. This is exactly what Bush has done.
Why do you not have a problem with that?
Are all of you so rich that you don't know what the middle class is going through these days? This country is in a shambles, and people are suffering through no fault of their own.
It's HIGH TIME the plight of the middle class is acknowledged and some help offered.
This "trickle-down" theory is NOT working, and it's time to employ the "trickle-UP" theory.
You must really, really like big government...sm
...that will tax and spend us all right into the ground.
I was hoping he pulls to the center, but it's looking like the O is gonna be way, way left of everybody......yeah, real wonderful feeling, that....
Here's hoping the depression doesn't last too long....
Government knows what they are doing.
They are doing all they can to make THEIR life comfortable. As long as they are getting paid and their pockets are getting filled with money......that is all they care about. We can't trust our government. Look at what trusting the government has done to us so far. Our economy is in shambles and the government wants to blow over 800 billion dollars again. This isn't going to fix our economy. It is just going to raise government spending and leave an even bigger deficit than we already had for our grandchildren. This stimulus package is a joke. I am totally against it!
What I want to know is why can't the government start something that would charge companies who outsource production to other countries? Let them open up a factory in another country but they have to pay a huge tax or something to do it. Make it to where it isn't a good financial decision so we can keep the jobs we have now and create more. That would help us MTs out as well. What is the point of creating jobs in our country if companies can still up and leave to go to other countries? Seriously....what is made in America? Even foreign cars like Honda who have factories here in America.....that money still doesn't go to the US. I know it employes Americans but the majority of the money there still goes out of the country. I want American made goods made by Americans. I also think people hiring illegal aliens should be penalized and fined heavily for doing so. That would stop that crap too.
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