Good point. I see no problem with both points of view being taught...
Posted By: sam on 2008-09-04
In Reply to: I agree with your post - except for one thing
and letting indivdiuals decide. Isn't that what America is about?
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A good uplifting point of view from God.....
http://www.sjchurchofchrist.org/freeboot.shtml
I go along with the well-said points of view of
Kaydie and LA difference.
You need to get out into the real world. From your post, it seems like you are living in a dream world.
When you have someone in your family assaulted and spends weeks in the hospital on the "edge", you will see why our right to own a gun is necessary. I certainly will not hesitate to shoot if I'm being threatened or to protect my family.
Only criminals use guns indiscriminantly and they don't care about life itself, or haven't you noticed? And that brings me to the point of the death penalty. Those that use a gun to commit a crime should receive the death penalty if they kill someone. I believe the death penalty is a deterent; i.e., some criminals with brains think twice before killing, but others do not.
I won't even go into your pub or Roe vs. Wade. They are so asinine, they don't deserve a reply.
Again, were coming from different points of view
You are right, we could argue until we're blue in the face. No man, except for Jesus Christ, has ever been perfect, and that's the point. Man is his own downfall everytime. That's because of sin. Christians, Jews, pagans, Hindus, Muslims etc. etc. all have the same problem, and it's sin. Until we leave the Earthly realm man is never free of it, but Jesus paid the price for it. Yes, I believe the Word of God is inerrant. I feel you have to believe it all or not at all. It's either right or wrong. I don't expect you to see it the same way, but I can assure you I haven't drank the Kool-Aid. I have read many, many different historical and Christian writings. I highly recommend the book The Case for Christ about a atheist who took a year to research Christianity before making a decision whether or not to accept it. Also, another good book is I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist (from your writings it doesn't sound like you're an Atheist though) Ultimately though it comes down to a leap of Faith. The definition of faith is believing in something I cannot see. It's hard for me not to look at nature without seeing God's hand all over it, and as the Bible says, The Heavens declare His Glory.
I have enjoyed our debate, but I am moving on...
Funny how view points are so different.
The dems are saying McCain wasn't presidential and made faces or whatever. The reps say that Obama smirked and not presidential. LOL! It really comes down to who you believe. If you don't like McCain, you are going to see the negative things you want to and vice versa. We are all guilty of this.
I think this election can go either way and we won't know until it is over. I just know who I'm supporting and I will continue to support until the end.
Another point of view...
Thinking About Iraq on King Day
By Star Parker
Monday, January 15, 2007
The characteristic of greatness - whether we are talking about a great man or great art - is that it transcends time and place. It dips into that which is universally and eternally true and applies those truths to a particular moment and a particular place.
Re-reading, after many reads, Dr. Martin Luther King's words of Aug. 28, 1963, the famous I Have a Dream speech, his greatness rings clearer than ever.
Because King did indeed touch the heavens on that day and pull down kernels of eternal truths about freedom and the condition of man, those words of 40-plus years ago have relevance to our struggles today. They can serve as guidance in these difficult times.
Am I saying that King's message from 1963 can guide us in today's conundrums _ about our embroilment in Iraq, about the Middle East, about America's role in the world? Yes, I am saying this.
The power of King's message, the unquestionable reason that the movement he led was successful, was his appeal to the truth of freedom and its universal applicability to all men.
By identifying and appealing to the freedom of man as a universal and eternal truth, and going on to make clear that this truth defined what this great country is about, then King's conclusion _ the intolerability of conditions that denied any American full participation in this freedom _ could not be denied.
Beyond this central message, King made other very important points in this speech.
One of key importance was that responsibility for solving a problem does not necessarily imply direct responsibility in having caused that problem.
Although the responsibility clearly was in the hands of those Americans with power, overwhelmingly white Americans, to fix the problems in the country that limited the availability of freedom to all, this did not mean that all those same Americans were racists or had caused the problem to begin with.
The responsibility for fixing these problems came, rather, with being the beneficiaries of a country whose destiny and identity was fundamentally linked with the enterprise of freedom.
In King's words, white Americans have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny and they have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom.
He appealed to blacks not to allow suffering to translate into bitterness nor into categorical hate of white Americans. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred.
Instead, King exhorted black Americans to Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive.
So Dr. King accomplished a lot of business that August day in 1963.
He recognized the universal truth of human liberty. He recognized our country as a unique vessel of that truth. He appealed to Americans with power to assume their responsibilities as the beneficiaries of liberty to make this a better and freer country. And he appealed to black Americans to assume a different kind of responsibility _ to not allow themselves to be destroyed by unearned suffering but to be redeemed by it.
The prophet is a lonely man because he brings a message that people do not want to hear.
Dr. King's activism was not welcomed by most whites and a good many blacks.
There is natural appeal in the inertia of the status quo. Change and assumption of new responsibilities and challenges are welcomed by few.
Turmoil tells us that something is wrong and we have no choice but to open our eyes and ears and assume the responsibilities that are cast upon us.
I am, of course, not a military tactician and am in no position to speculate about how best to use American troops to midwife a portion of the world that clearly needs help in becoming more modern, more civil and freer.
However, I can say, that I am in complete sympathy with our president who senses that America has a unique and special role to play in this world. We cannot shirk responsibilities that are clearly ours.
I cannot help but think that it is not an accident that the United States stands so alone, despite many other nations that claim to have similar commitments to and stakes in civility and liberty. The way they act makes clear that they don't.
The truths that Dr. King articulated in so crystal clear a way in 1963 continue to resound today. Freedom is what this country is about. We have no choice. It is our heritage. We thrive and prosper from it. And we cannot avoid the responsibilities that come with it in our engagement with the rest of the world.
I appreciate your point of view, Just Me....
and I will be the first to admit, as I admitted right up front to GT/GW/BW/FPJ who knows what else, she pushed my buttons and took great joy in doing so. She attributed things to me I never said, condemned an entire political party en masse and had the nerve to call me a bigot and that was the nicest thing she called me. If you followed the posts you know that most of the name calling from my end was just repeating back to her what I had been called. The same kinds of exchanges happen on political talk shows every night. Have you ever watched Chris Matthews or Keith Olbermann?
Her parting shot...Time to take out the trash.
In deference to your request, I will say this...I believe that GW believes with every fiber of her being that she is right and is passionate about her beliefs, and I certainly understand that. I think she is probably a nice person to those who share her views, loves her family like the rest of us and would like to fix all the perceived injustices in the world, just like the rest of us would. But you can't move forward if you don't let go of the hate and the blame game. There is plenty of blame to go around, on both sides of the aisle. No law, no program, no nothing can be passed in this country without both Republicans and Democrats voting for it, fact. We can't blame it all on the left and we can't blame it all on the right or the middle or whoever. In fact, we shouldn't be blaming at all, just trying to fix. But...as I am sure you well know, Just Me...the radical side of BOTH parties don't see the middle road.
The irony of the whole thing is that I am not a registered Republican...registered Independent. Only register Republican in primary years because I can't vote if I don't register Republican or Democrat...that's the law. Yet I was thrown right in and condemned right along with every other "pub."
Just Me, sometimes you just have to stand for what you believe, and not let a bully pigeon hole you and call you things you are not. And sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. That is just a part of life. I apologize if you were offended by witnessing it. I truly do. I apologize to anyone who was.
Just to clarify: I don't hate immigrants or immigration. That is how this country was born. Save Native Americans, we ALL descend from immigrants. I just feel immigration should be legal, and that immigrants should become tax-paying citizens before they get the benefits of citizenship. That's it. Real simple. And not bigoted.
And for the record, I don't hate all Democrats or blame them for all the ills in the world. Like I said...plenty of blame to go around on both sides. My parents were Democrats (old school Democrats). There have been Democrats I greatly admired...John Kennedy...Zell Miller. Great Americans in my opinion.
My point of view
I really don't care if a president cheats on his or HER spouse under most circumstances. But when his little playmate testifies he was being "serviced" by her with talking on the phone with important people, that bothers me. She very well could have heard confidential things she shouldn't have. When you are in the Oval Office you are on the clock and should act like it.
Another point of view...or two (sm)
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=17587
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/20/content_10388377.htm
exactly my point of view, thanks, just me'.......nm
nm
You're entitled to your point of view
but not everybody thinks he has lied. Just because people say he has lied does not make it true. There has been nothing substantial to support that he lied. I just wish people would just quit throwing the word lie around so freely, because they are jumping to conclusions with no substantiation.
What scares me is I wonder how many people could withstand a real threat to this country. We are so un-unified if it came across the television that we were being attacked....I'm not sure some of you would believe it....you'd just say, "another Bush lie..."
Our generation knows nothing of true hardship. The Iraq war is not a quagmire...it's not another Vietnam...it's not anything like the dems are whining about it being....
what a bigoted point of view!
I suppose it is okay for the "men" to have affairs and the other issues they have had? that's not dysfunctional? It is okay to leave it to the women to take to fix their crap?
This really makes me both mad and sad --
I'd like to see things from your point of view but
I can't seem to get my head up that far in my behind.
Someone who respected her point of view
Both similar to yours. Though her point of view was a little different from yours, she had a great sense of humor. She knew she was going to be attacked by certain posters on this board no matter what she said and she never cared and never caved in to the ridicule and the ignorance.
If they finally got to her, then I'm really sorry about that, though I can understand why. I considered her a friend, and I miss her. 
Good points.
I keep hoping that Krazy Katherine (Harris) will begin to spill her guts about it all since the Bushes have turned their backs on her, after she saw to it that he took Florida. She's probably waiting for her payback and isn't getting it from them.
Good points. nm
nm
Very good points! nm
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Here here - very good points.
I didn't catch the whole interview (just a question here and there) but I did hear him ask her about the Bush doctrine. I looked at DH and asked him "what part of it is he asking about". She had the perfect right to ask him to clarify. It was definitely a set up (or tried to be a set up). Overall I think she gave a good interview given they were trying to bait and trap her. Luckily it didn't work and she came out looking better. Maybe what they should do is get some people from other countries who have no vested interest in who gets picked to interview and be the moderators during debates because it's obvious that it doesn't matter what network you work for, if you want one candidate to win over the other your going to be condescending to the other. Boy do I miss Tim Russert.
BTW - With all that has been thrown at her from the media and the liberal sacs she sure can take care of herself. Makes me realized what a strong VP she will make.
Good points! nm
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Very good points nm
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Good points
From what I understand the Obamas did look at the public school system in DC. Unfortunately, it's not terrific. Don't blame the feds - blame the people who insisted on election Marion Barry ad nauseum to one position of power or another in that city.
Picture yourself as a parent of a public school child. Now picture yourself as that same parent, yet your child has to go through metal detectors and screening and more every time they want to go to class because the President's kids go to school with you. Now picture yourself as that same parent because there is a kidnapping threat or death threat to those same kids of the president.
The Obamas made the only choice that was viable for their children and for other children who will be going to school with them. Public schools are not set up for the type of security that POTUS' kids need.
And let's be realistic. This POTUS needs a helluva lot more security than others did. I love the guy and I voted for him, but I'm not blind to the security issues that are faced with him being POTUS.
Good points
That was what I kept thinking but didn't know how to word it. Every station has the news on, and then they have shows where people give their opinions/comments, but when people on this board will call it Foux New or Fixed News (or whatever) - I think Geez, these are the same exact news stories, film clips that I'm seeing on MSNBC and CNN when they are doing their news segments. So why is it okay if it's on their stations but the same exact news story on Fox is not credible? Unfortunately though I think your last sentance said it all "you don't let them form your opinions". Unfortunately I think a lot of liberals do let Olbermann and Matthews and the likes form their opinion. I know this because I listen to my family and also because I used to be a huge Olberman and Matthews fan (until I saw the crap they were pulling during the campaign trail and how little respect they gave for the republican side ridiculing them. I would think, well that's not fair because they are not critizing Hillary or Obama. Then my friend said listen to other stations and see what they have to say then form your own opinion once you hear both sides. Otherwise your just being brainwashing.
Case in point...what a democratic view....NOT.
YOu have been exposed for what you are, and in typical spin, turn it on to someone else and make them the villain. You guys are like the Wizard of Oz...one head and lots of little bodies running around. :)
Simply displays a different point of view...nm
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Clarification...do not allow dissention to their point of view...nm
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Yes, but if it were FOX and an anti-liberal view point ad...
all liberals would be screaming "censorship".
Good points - thanks for the reminder
Sometimes I need to be brought back to earth here.
I do think being pro-life and being against abortion are two different things. I don't think McCain cares anything about the life of "adults" and will send anyone to their death in a heartbeat to fuel the war he wants to continue.
You are absolutely 100% correct on not laying the whole war thing on the republicans. Largely the democrats voted for it (not all but a good number of them - including Hillary). However, with that said we have Mr. Cheney - need I say more. I used to like him until I started reading more about him and his role in the decisions that go on. Bush is an imbic!le, hence Cheney is really the decision maker. Bush is just a puppet and Mr. Cheney is the puppet master.
On a different note - this morning I was listing to a show and have heard now that it's pretty obvious that at the convention Barack will announce his running mate is going to be Hillary. If that happens, no matter how much I dislike McCain I WILL be voting for McCain. I will do anything I have to to keep her far away from the white house. I just wish McCain would stop saying "my freinds" every 5 minutes in his speeches. It's very condescending and irritating as all get out. One time we listened to his speech that ran aproximately 5 minutes in which he said "my friends" about 18 or so times. It's like everytime he starts a new sentance he begins with "My friends".
As for the nurse in the video...she should be thrown in jail for acting immoral and aiding in the death of an infant(s). I'm against abortions. First, there are too many childless families in America who are desperate at any chance to have a child. No reason to murder the innocent child. But partial birth abortions...I really started hearing about that when Clinton was president and he signed whatever it was approving this. It's totally disgusting and nauseating and anyone who is doing or or agreeing to have it done should be aborted themselves!!!! They can justify it any way they want to - it is still murder and dispicable! It really saddens me to think people actually think this is okay. But when they go down that road they are not human beings anymore - they are sub-human.
you make some good points; however,
for people so very skeptical of the 'black man' how is it you immediately on a dime trust this woman and you nor any of us know who she really is. You have NO idea about her and you defend her like she is your own family. It is kind of weird...
From our point of view, and by that I mean undecided about who to vote for, we are not that trusting after being burned 8 years ago...
Case in point. Complete intolerance for any view other than their own.
This is what the Democratic party has become.
All very good points. But the proof is in the pudding....
it is up to HIM to change our minds and prove us wrong, and for the good of the country, I hope he is able to. Sincerely.
Take heart tho...they did not get a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate like they hoped, so if the Republicans will grow a backbone and stand up to them...he will be limited somewhat in what he can do. Especially in the case of SUpreme Court justices. I hope they step up (the Republicans). They have to earn my respect TOO.
My point of view was stated quite clearly. People on the left may be blinded....
Kind of sad, actually.
My point of view was stated quite clearly. People on the left may be blinded....
Really, really good points, just shows how complicated it all is! provocative thoughtful post, than
nm
Good point, good post. Thanks.
Good point...sm
There is no blaming liberals for Bush's inaction. He hasn't paid us any attention for the past 6 years, so anything that he has done is of his own accord, including the handling of the war in Iraq.
Suzie mentioned not taking out al Sadr above (sound familiar?).
Good point
I remember a disagreement several of us had with our pastor years ago. Several folks were talking about leaving. One of the elders told us, "You don't leave, I don't leave, this is our church, not his. He needs to remember that he works for us, not the other way around." Brought lots of things into perspective for me.
Good point
Yeah, they are both raking in the dough, but why should Hillary or anyone be forced to pay our health care costs? Your right, the post makes no sense.
Good point - :-)
xx
Good point. nm
nm
Good for you! Well-said and to-the-point, too.
x
Good point. nm
nm
Good point! nm
Good point :-) nm
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Good point - He won by only 4%
They did not get 100% of the vote and he did not win by a landslide. I would say more like "squeaked by".
Good point there
Many of the people that carry on about the sanctity of human life have no problem rushing out during hunting season to bag their quota of wildlife, no problem trashing the environment/planet for profit, etc. Either all life is sacred, or none is, IMHO.
good point s/m
Methodists share that belief as do most protestant churches I believe. I don't believe that politics has any place in the pulpit.
Good point....nm
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Good point
nm
You have a good point there..........sm
By comparison, what I meant was that if he fails to bring us out of this downward spiral we are in then America would fail. I was looking at it as if Obama was doing what was the best thing for this country, and certainly, none of what he has accomplished thus far has been for the good of the country. I stand corrected!
Good point. (nm)
*
That is a very good point.
All the sex and drugs that goes along with rock n roll. There is always going to be something you don't approve of one way or another whether it be who they sleep with or how much drugs they do. I would not deprive myself of good music just because that particular artist is gay.
That's a good point and it's true. sm
I am sure all of us have things we do in the name of kindness. The rest of us just don't talk about it.
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