Enter the elephant in the room not beind discussed
Posted By: sm on 2008-12-13
In Reply to: Unions don't work anymore. - Backwards typist
Under the Obama administration, reform in trade agreements, incentives to keep jobs stateside and targets plans to make it easier to unionize will be changing that picture. Pubs have lost this grip, no matter how loud they protest, how many GOP alert memos they send or how hard they pretend otherwise. Look for the unions to make a long overdue comeback. Then we shall see just how outdated they are.
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That's the elephant in the room...
that very few posters on this forum are willing to acknowledge. They would much rather pay to kill people overseas than give a penny to the poor in this country. Pretty sickening, if you ask me!
Continued (hit enter too soon)
There isn't one person on this entire board who has wished anyone to be killed, especially an MP.
For you to suggest that someone got their wish is inflammatory, irresponsible and an outright LIE (not that that's a new communication technique used by you people).
As far as looting, anybody who steals a plasma TV, computer, etc., should be considered criminal and should be stopped in whatever way is necessary.
I just wonder what YOU would do if you had children and were in a situation where you had no water, no electricity, no food, nowhere to sleep for DAYS ON END. Would you go into a Walmart and take some water, baby formula, food -- whatever it takes so that you CAN STAY ALIVE? I've never been in a position like that, but I can pretty much guarantee that if I were, I'd do whatever I had to do to feed my children and keep them safe from harm. If that included taking items from a store (that nobody was ever going to buy anyway), then you'd better believe I'd do it.
You sound very much like the person I heard in the store the other day, who said that she's let her kids FREEZE TO DEATH before accepting any help from Chavez.
Guess it's easy to see who has the family values in this crowd.
You're a disgrace.
People enter various professions
for a variety of reasons. I know a teacher who does not really care for kids, but who wanted a job with no heavy lifting and summers off. I started doing MT because it gave me an opportunity to use my English and typing skills in a part-time job with no commute. Before that, I retired from a civil service job in a dangerous 'helping' profession. I actually did help a lot of people, but I entered the field not out of do-gooderism, because I was a woman wanting to earn a man's wage, without a 4-year degree. It enabled me to buy a house, which my former secretarial job would not have.
Altruism is generally an unreliable criterion for choosing a profession, unless it also pays you a living wage.
ROFL. Enter the typo police....
at least you found a different subject to attack on. Still snide, but nevertheless...attack, attack, attack. I look forward to your report on all the other posts and then posting our QA scores. Hop to it! LOL. geezzzzz.
Enter the cheerleader. Predictable. So much for listening to the other side...
LOL. If only liberals would live their philosophy...it might actually BE a better world.
There are over ONE MILLION hits on Google when you enter...George Bush Atheist...sm
Does that make him an atheist?
GET the point?
Why is this being discussed?
This happened a long time ago. Is the point to make one party look bad and the other good? That is silly. Both parties at some point or another have made horrible decisions. Maybe I'm PMSing and emotional, but I'm a little offended by this thread. I certainly was not alive to vote those people into Congress, therefore why should I be 'punished' for something they did before I was even born. The whole thing is just very inflammatory. Why don't we discuss things that are in the present that we have some say over? Observer, I usually defend you at least a little, but you took this discussion to a hurtful place. That is an ugly time in our history and to make it sound like Democrats are responsible for it, or at least were the only ones who wanted it to continue, is very offensive. I know everyone will probably say that Bush bashing is hurtful, and maybe it is, but that is something that is happening currently that we have a right to discuss. We have the ability to vote in regards to these issues that are happening NOW.
As this has already been discussed
I will not revisit any of the existing arguments from the other thread. I just want to point out that Obama will not be king able to make a decree on whim. A program like this, if it truly is like some are interpreting it, would have to be passed by Congress and would probably take years to implement if it did, which is doubtful. Besides, I sincerely doubt that the Dems will hold the majority at the midterm elections. I would suggest that any who are concerned about this take gourdpainter's advice posted above.
This was discussed below.
I think it is just plain sad really. If you are white, you don't qualify for a job. If you are highly skilled, you don't qualify. Why wouldn't you want highly skilled people? That is just plain retarded right there. Things are bad enough right now that all people, including all races, are losing jobs and highly skilled people are losing jobs. Why should they be not included in this opportunity? Sounds to me like they would prefer to have unskilled minorities build stuff than highly skilled individuals. To me that suggests p*ss poor work being done and very poor management...but whatever.
Then again....we've always sort of had this problem. Companies have a certain quota of minorities they have to hire and often pick a minority with less skill and qualifications over someone who is skilled just to meet their quota of hiring minorities. So what is the point of being skilled? Once again....the dumbing down of America right there.
This is the experience currently being discussed.
Before answering the question, please read the following. This is posted in response to pub spin that would assert SP is better qualified to lead the country because of O's lack of experience. Of special note are the numerous foreign relations committee diplomatic initiatives listed below. Of course, I would be interested in any comparabl experience SP may have that the pubs can produce. I have saved this post and will be using it in reply to any similar assertions made by pubs in the future whenever I encounter them. Hope format is not too seedy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Senate_career_of_Barack_Obama
In Illinois senate O Worked to get BIPARTISAN support on legislation on:
1. Ethics reform.
2. Health care reform.
3. Sponsored bills for earned income tax credits for low-income workers.
4. Provisions for $100 million in tax cuts to families.
5. Provisions for early childhood education.
6. Welfare reform.
7. Childcare subsidies.
8. Funding for churches and community groups.
9. Chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee.
10. Instituted requirement for transparent videotaped police interrogations of suspects in capitol cases after a number of death row inmates were found innocent.
11. Measures against racial profiling.
12. Campaign finance reform.
13. Restrictions on lobbyists activities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_career_of_Barack_Obama
In US Senate:
1. Senate Committee (SC) on Foreign Relations.
2. SC on Health.
3. SC on Health.
4. SC on Labor and Pensions.
5. SC on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.
6. SC on Veterans' Affairs.
7. Member of Congressional Black Caucus.
8. Chairman of the Subcommitte on European Affairs.
9. Border security and Immigration reform. Cosponsor "Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act introduced by JM.
10. Added 3 amendments to the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act.
11. Supported Secure Fence Act for security improvements along US-Mexico border.
12. Cosponsored Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006.
13. Introduced expansions to Cooperative Threat Reduction Program to secure and dismantle weapons of mass destruction and their associated infrastructure in former Soviet Union states.
14. Sponsor of Democratic Republic of Congo Relief, Security and Democracy Promotion Act, signed by Bush, to restore basic services like clinics and schools, train a professional, integrated and accountable police force and military, and otherwise support the Congolese in protecting their human rights and rebuilding their nation.
15. As member of Foreign Relations Committee, he made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East and Africa. His 2005 trip to Russia, Ukraine and Azerbaijan focus on strategy planning for the control of world's supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons and WMDs and defense against potential terrorist attacks.
16. January 2006, met with US military in Kuwait and Iraq. Visited Jordan, Israel and Palestinian territories. Asserted preconditions that US will never recognize legitimacy of Hamas leadership until they renounce elimination of Israel.
17. August 2006, official trip to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad where he made televised appearance addressing ethnic rivalries and corruption in Kenya.
18. Worked on Honest Leadership and Open Government Act, signed into law, to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions.
19. Cosponsored bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections to include fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls.
20. Cosponsored climate change bill to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by two-thirds by 2050.
21. Promoted liquefied coal production of gas and diesel.
22. Introduced Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007 to cap troop levels as prelude to phased troop withdrawal and removal of all combat brigades.
23. Cosponsored amendment to Defense Authorization Act safeguarding personality disorder military discharges.
24. Sponsored Iran Sanctions Enabling Act in support of divestment of state pensions funds from Iran's oil and gas industry.
25. Introduced legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism., provisions of which were added as amendments to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.
26. Sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance program providing one-year job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries, which passed both houses of Congress with bipartisan support but was ultimately vetoed by fearless George.
It is so ridiculous that this is still being discussed.
nm
We discussed the same issue...
he is just another man elected to be president who just happens to be half black. Big deal. Also, for the state of the economy, there is certainly a lot of money being spent for this charade. A low key celebration would be fine, not the 150 million dollar price tag we are footing some of the bill for. He will never live up to the hype he has generated. The bloom will be off the rose before long and we will have a front row seat for the further decline of our economy, not to mention the terrorists who are anxiously awaiting an Obama administration.
Already been discussed on both boards. Catch up. nm
x
No - martial law discussed 9/18/09 - under Bush...
Sept.18: Congressional Leaders told US Economy Had Been Hours Away from Collapse
February 10, 2009, 4:32AM
A stunning video has surfaced of Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-PA) describing Thursday September 18 when Bernanke and Paulson starkly informed Congressional leaders how close the economy had come to collapsing that day.
After $550 billion had been electronically drawn out of money market accounts and $105 billion had been poured back into the system with no effect, the Federal Reserve and the Treasury made the decision to shut down the money market accounts and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account. Rep. Kanjorski:
If they had not done that their estimation was that by two o'clock that afternoon, $5.5 trillion would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States, and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed.
It would have been the end of our economic system and our political system as we know it. [via Magnifico at Daily Kos]
Again via Magnifico, The Motley Fool adds some background as well as a possible connection to martial law in The One Jaw Dropping Video that Every Fool Must See. Both Sen. Inhofe, R-Okla., and Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Calif claim that Paulson brought up the possibility of a declaration of martial law.
The same article also revealed that a November 2008 Army War College Report discusses the possible use of the US military in the event of a domestic economic collapse.
Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security. Deliberate employment of weapons of mass destruction or other catastrophic capabilities, unforeseen economic collapse... are all paths to disruptive domestic shock. [p.32] Support for Kanjorski's claims can be found in archives from that time period:
Congressional Leaders Stunned by Warnings, NY Times, Sept. 19, 2008.
...as the Fed chairman, Ben S. Bernanke, laid out the potentially devastating ramifications of the financial crisis before congressional leaders on Thursday night, there was a stunned silence at first. Mr. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. had made an urgent and unusual evening visit to Capitol Hill...
Rushing to save money-market funds, CNN Money, Sept. 19, 2008
By Friday, federal officials worried that the strain on money-market funds had become too great and threatened the world's financial system.
As an aside, if all of this happened on Thursday, Sept. 18, why in the world did McCain wait until the last minute on the 24th to cancel his interview with David Letterman?
No - martial law discussed 9/18/08 - under Bush...
Sept.18: Congressional Leaders told US Economy Had Been Hours Away from Collapse
February 10, 2009, 4:32AM
A stunning video has surfaced of Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-PA) describing Thursday September 18 when Bernanke and Paulson starkly informed Congressional leaders how close the economy had come to collapsing that day.
After $550 billion had been electronically drawn out of money market accounts and $105 billion had been poured back into the system with no effect, the Federal Reserve and the Treasury made the decision to shut down the money market accounts and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account. Rep. Kanjorski:
If they had not done that their estimation was that by two o'clock that afternoon, $5.5 trillion would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States, and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed.
It would have been the end of our economic system and our political system as we know it. [via Magnifico at Daily Kos]
Again via Magnifico, The Motley Fool adds some background as well as a possible connection to martial law in The One Jaw Dropping Video that Every Fool Must See. Both Sen. Inhofe, R-Okla., and Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Calif claim that Paulson brought up the possibility of a declaration of martial law.
The same article also revealed that a November 2008 Army War College Report discusses the possible use of the US military in the event of a domestic economic collapse.
Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security. Deliberate employment of weapons of mass destruction or other catastrophic capabilities, unforeseen economic collapse... are all paths to disruptive domestic shock. [p.32] Support for Kanjorski's claims can be found in archives from that time period:
Congressional Leaders Stunned by Warnings, NY Times, Sept. 19, 2008.
...as the Fed chairman, Ben S. Bernanke, laid out the potentially devastating ramifications of the financial crisis before congressional leaders on Thursday night, there was a stunned silence at first. Mr. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. had made an urgent and unusual evening visit to Capitol Hill...
Rushing to save money-market funds, CNN Money, Sept. 19, 2008
By Friday, federal officials worried that the strain on money-market funds had become too great and threatened the world's financial system.
As an aside, if all of this happened on Thursday, Sept. 18, why in the world did McCain wait until the last minute on the 24th to cancel his interview with David Letterman?
Yes, but it was not going to be discussed and your pictures posted on the internet...
for the entire country to see and discuss. Her privacy, which she is entitled to as a 16-year-old, has been invaded in a very nasty way. Sorry, that is the way I feel about it. I think it was terribly wrong for dailykrap to post it and terribly wrong for someone to spread it even further here. But that is just me.
as part of a phased withdrawal, discussed with and
There is a specified end sight as posted on O's website for those who are interested in fact over fiction. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/#phased-withdrawal
Excuse me. Clearly, the women, children, babies and elders in that video posed no immediate threat to US troops there. No need for pudit expert analysis on that one.
Obama actually does differ on McCain in his Afghanistan plan, especially when it comes to more precise targeting (like OBL, to name one instance) and measures that would protect and spare civilian populations from blanket bombing of entire villages to "flush out" a half dozen "known" Taliban.
Diplomacy has not been tried with Taliban or any other theocratic leadership in view of the "we don't negotiate with terrorist" W dogma...that is, of course, until recently when he decided to flip to the O side of diplomatic policy and explore the idea of establishing an American "Interests" Section in Tehran.
You cannot possibly pretend to know what sort of progress can be made under leadership guided by a president who has the kind of insight O has into Islamic cultures until those initiatives are explored. What is apparent from that video is that ANY and ALL efforts should be undertaken to succeed in disarming terrorist arsenals AND appeal and that measures should be undertaken to prevent the slaughter of women, children, babies and old men.
O has very clearly articulated his approach and policies on diplomacy on his website, which have been available since the day he launched his campaign. Show me the McCain plan for diplomacy. Don't just claim he "knows what he is doing" because he knows his way around a battlefield. Show me the plan. I will not address the rest of the post because it reflects all that tired out politics of fear warmongering rhetoric that 80% of the nation has clearly indicated it no longer buys into.
yeah, when religion is discussed, it is the left
nm
This was all discussed ad nauseum in this morning's thread.
he said it before the election? I am not going to spend my time repeating verbatim the information that is sitting immediately under this thread. No one, including the MILLIONS of your fellow citizens who support the closing of Gitmo, thought it was going to be easy, but it IS going to be done, not by finding another way, but by doing it the way Obama has already put into action.
BTW, sodiers have been speaking up against the govt for quite some time now...in fact, for years before Obama ever took office. Ever heard of the Winter Soldiers?
Is there room for one more............sm
I echo all the sentiments expressed here. I believe that God will put the man in this office that needs to be there. I have been praying for this election for some time and that God's will be done. Regardless whether "my man" wins or not, I pray God's guidance for the man that is in office because I believe he will have a lot of work to do. For the man who does not get in office, he will have a lot of work to do still in the Senate and can be a very effective leader from there.
I am happy to have this forum where we can all come together and "cuss and discuss" things. I know I may have been a bit abrasive to some here, and if I have offended, then I truly apologize. You see, I love to argue......errrr, debate....most any subject and sometimes get a bit carried away, but truly none of my words were meant to be hurtful or insulting, and If they were, again, I apologize. 
All the best to each of you and I hope that, whoever wins the election, your life will be blessed.
Now, back to business................
I'd like to see Ann escorted into a room ....
...of pie-bearing New York City first responders and let her explain herself to them.
You got that right. Just imaging how much room
nm
BDayes gets at least as much room
nm
Never has been. Trying to make room
su
you should go to the emergency room
x
sam, you have no room to call anyone
your posts speak for themselves, and frankly I'm done reading them. Arrogant? No, just tired of talking to a brick wall. You call me arrogant and closed-minded and yet you're the one who doesn't want to concede a single point. You have to have the last word on everything, but we'll see who has the last word when the votes are counted.
So I should stick myself in a room
and never go anywhere because it's everyone's right to display sex drugs and violence everywhere? Where is my right to live in a society that doesn't bombard us day and night with those lifestyles?
We do not have enough room for our own prisoners.
x
But he has so much ''wiggle room''
explaining the VAT. He can claim that he is not charging the people a new tax. He is charging the growers, manufacturers, haulers and merchants. (As if magically this is not a cost of doing business to be borne by the consumer.)
I always have to laugh when people yell, ''raise taxes corporations.'' Who do they think ultimately pays that tax? It is the end user of any product. Raise corporate taxes and anyone who purchases goods or services from that company pays a higher price for it. So it is a tax on all citizens/consumers, just indirect and invisible.
You and JTBB might want to get a room.
nm
You have a lot of room to call someone else a liar...
I saved the conversations, so I know the truth and that is what is important. You have lied so long under so many monikers to so many people you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you.
I did not lie about the bashing thing. I am not bashing you and I never said you email stalked me or threatened me, that was another poster. However, I WAS emailed in nasty, nasty terms when I was silly enough to give someone from this board my email address. It could have been you under still another moniker. I don't know that to be a fact.
Geezzz...talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You lied about being Taiga and Teddy until you slipped up yourself, and I have those conversations saved. I don't know if they are in the archives or not, as many posts were deleted, but I have them...I know you, Taiga/Teddy, in all your chameleon monikers and personalities...and you KNOW I do.
As you said...WHATEVER. lol.
My husband said....Put all the people in a room....sm
that have known Obama for years and years and can vouch for his character and things he has truly done and been influenced by....put them in a room, these people from the last 25 years ago, from his college days until he ran for public office.
Where are these people?
Who are they? Where are they hiding?
It just might be an empty room. That's another scary thing to me.
You might have either have Rev. Wright, Ayers, and a bunch of socialists.....but he dumped them under the bus and says they never influenced him...so really...empty room?
Where are they? Obama doesn't want us to know who they are maybe?
So....No one in the room at all.
I had to leave the room when NP and BF were speaking
I absolutely got sick!
Wow! There are people protesting outside the room.
People were just yelling something about the bailout and somebody yelled "Put the money in the food bank so people can eat."!!!
Sure, but I'd rather be in a small room with a caterpillar!
nm
Get a room? Something on my nose? Simply
because I was polite to someone, chose to give one of the "nice" ones the benefit of the doubt while finding posts like yours uninformative, childish and a pure waste of keystrokes?
I agree, given the never-ending bitterness and hatefulness you have, it will all come back to bite you in the butt some day. One usually gets back what they give.
No thanks!. Was just checking on the kids room.
nm
How about A ROOM for JTBB & Marman! sm
Apparently these 2 have more time than anyone else. The few times I even refresh the MQ section, they seem to have a leg up on the whole show. It's all the time!
Honestly, it's just tiresome!
Sho you right. Not enough room in society for evil perverts.
Keep it coming, you make plenty sense. I enjoy your posts so much :):)
Not thinking logically....you have room to talk....
you obviously don't know squat about how the government is run, but I am sure some of your fellow Democrats (try Harry Reid) could explain to you how there is a budget, and there are certain monies that go into each budget and they don't cross over...although I have to agree in spirit, the way the Democrats have raped Social Security and pulled money from it to put into other entitlement programs that fell short...yeah, I am sure the Democrats could get the money from somewhere. And if you do not see the difference in funding our military and funding social programs...talk about a person without sound judgment. I don't know why when you Democrats (or some of you) get backed into a corner you want to start personally attacking people, telling them they are not thinking logically and without sound judgment and run the the favorite Dem backup, the war, the war, the war.
As to the cigarette tax..I am not a smoker, never have been, but it seems erally arrogant to me to single out a certain portion of society to almost double a tax on to pay for this. In what alternate reality is that FAIR?? Many of them are ones who would be users of the SCHIP program. If you are asking THEM to fund their own "free" insurance, should you not be willing to do the same? You sign up to have an extra 3% taken off the top of your gross income to be dedicated to SCHIP. You are behind it 100%. Everyone who signs up to use it signs up to have an additional 3% of their income off the top given to SCHIP. All Democrats who want to expand the program, pledge 3% off the top of your gross income from now until you die. You fund it. Works for me. You won't hear me complain.
Sam leaves us no room for real issues.
It has been nothing but a sam Blitzkrieg on the political board these past few weeks. Sam posts messages with the express intent of wreaking havoc and instigating arguments, as evidenced by her comments such as, "Let the games begin." If sam would be so kind as to step away, we might be able to discuss the issues that are important to all of us in an intelligent and adult manner. I for one will no longer feed the sam troll by by acknowledging any post by her.
Someone who understands that chat room bashing
?
Guess he didn't have room for his beloved pie.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0ftD7Y7dCn1mI/340x.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.daylife.com/photo/0ftD7Y7dCn1mI&usg=__pkklKSLi37kzI-vyh3oHYNXbrzk=&h=425&w=340&sz=33&hl=en&start=6&tbnid=tiw8xBS9CFOXFM:&tbnh=126&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dobama%2Blooks%2Bpie%2Bphoto%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den
LOVE this shot of him. A man, alone with his pie.
Obama has no room to talk about earmarks....and neither he nor Biden...
have much room to talk about flip flopping. Ahem.
Bush said Obama asked to see the room where his girls would sleep -
Bush said it was obvious that Obama was going to be a family man even in office.
hotel room, like the guy said, the Alaska plane is not a famil station wagon. Sounds like fat cat to
no message
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