Don't we want to live like our founding fathers did?
Posted By: sm on 2009-02-25
In Reply to: I'll pass on that one, thanks! - ummm...
Come on, just about everything I read on this board is a freaking joke, so, let's brainstorm some ideas so we can really be FREE. The first item to toss is the earned income credit - get rid of that welfare, money sucking drain on those of us who don't qualify!!! I'm tired of carrying all those lowlifes who don't earn as much as I do on my back!
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So do you think our founding fathers
were religious fanatics?
Anyone who thinks that the Founding Fathers >>>
intended the country to be run like a Christian theocracy is an ignoramus, a moron, or both.
I don't have to be tolerant of anyone trying to shove his religion down my political throat.
Yep, our founding fathers did lay the foundation...(sm)
for our country over 200 years ago. Unfortunately, the republican party hasn't evolved with the rest of the world over those 200 years.
Here is just a little bit for you, quotes of the founding fathers...NOT deists as you would like to
talk about arrogance. Your post is heavvyyyy with it.
Early Years
The First Charter of Virginia (granted by King James I, on April 10, 1606)
• We, greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory of his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God…
Instructions for the Virginia Colony (1606)
Lastly and chiefly the way to prosper and achieve good success is to make yourselves all of one mind for the good of your country and your own, and to serve and fear God the Giver of all Goodness, for every plantation which our Heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted out.
William Bradford
• wrote that they [the Pilgrims] were seeking:
• 1) "a better, and easier place of living”; and that “the children of the group were being drawn away by evil examples into extravagance and dangerous courses [in Holland]“
• 2) “The great hope, and for the propagating and advancing the gospel of the kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of the world"
The Mayflower Compact (authored by William Bradford) 1620 | Signing of the Mayflower painting | Picture of Compact
“Having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith, and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one of another, covenant and combine our selves together…”
______________________________________________________________________
John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]
John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798
"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson
"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean He**." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] |
.......click here to see this quote in its context and to see John Adams' quotes taken OUT of context!
Samuel Adams: | Portrait of Sam Adams | Powerpoint presentation on John, John Quincy, and Sam Adams
“ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]
“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790]
John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.
“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61
Elias Boudinot: | Portrait of Elias Boudinot
“ Be religiously careful in our choice of all public officers . . . and judge of the tree by its fruits.”
Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]
Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]
In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."
In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."
Alexander Hamilton:
• Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
“The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”
On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”
"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]
"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.
"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"
Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
• This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry
“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
“The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed.”
John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.
“Whether our religion permits Christians to vote for infidel rulers is a question which merits more consideration than it seems yet to have generally received either from the clergy or the laity. It appears to me that what the prophet said to Jehoshaphat about his attachment to Ahab ["Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?" 2 Chronicles 19:2] affords a salutary lesson.” [The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, 1794-1826, Henry P. Johnston, Editor (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1893), Vol. IV, p.365]
Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”
"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]
Note all the references to Christianity and to Jesus. Now that your lies are put to rest, can we please move ON?
Read the quotes. They were NOT secularists. The Lord Jesus Christ was part of their everyday lives. It was not something they put on on Sunday and took off on Monday, like some religious types do. It was ingrained in everything they did. That is what Christianity is.
What you are so angry about is that someone is still willing to call something that is wrong...wrong. You don't like feeling guilty so you attack...that is a normal human response. Examine why it makes you so angry to think this country was founded by Christians and all our founding documents are based on Christian ideals.
do u mean the founding fathers that actually wrote our constition?
The ones that didn't wipe their a$$e$ on it? The ones that wanted to separate church from state? The ones that wanted liberty from tyranny?
Our Founding Fathers were considered terrorists. sm
God forbid, there are people out there who want to defend our Constitution. Americans should be ashamed of themselves for letting things go this far. Real change needs to come from us. It should alarm people. Stalin, Mao, and Hitler used the same tactics to stifle dissent. People who support the Independent Party, Christians, and pro lifers are also on it. DHS distributed that memo to 70 or 80 different fusion centers throughout the US. Many thanks are due the concerned and honest police officer who leaked the one that went to Missouri.
The Founding Fathers were not Christians and the country was not founded on Christianity
I hate to disagree with you sam because I usually find you right on the spot about a lot, but this time I do disagree...
One of the most common statements is that the country was “founded on Christian principles by Christian men”. However, research into American history shows this statement is false. The men responsible for building the foundation of the United States had little use for Christianity, and many were strongly opposed to it. They were men of The Enlightenment, not men of Christianity. They were Deists who did not believe the bible was true.
None of the Founding Fathers were atheists. Most of the Founders were Deists, which is to say they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans, and does not directly communicate with humans, either by revelation or by sacred books. They spoke often of God, (Nature's God or the God of Nature), but this was not the God of the bible. They did not deny that there was a person called Jesus, and praised him for his benevolent teachings, but they flatly denied his divinity. Most of them were stoutly opposed to the bible, and the teachings of Christianity in particular.
Yes, there were Christian men among the Founders. Just as Congress removed Thomas Jefferson's words that condemned the practice of slavery in the colonies, and altered his wording regarding equal rights increasing its religious overtones.
The Founding Fathers would turn in their graves if the Christian Extremists had their way with this country. The Founders clearly did not heed what was written in the bible. If they were in fact "good" Christians, there would never have been an American Revolution. Here are some statements and quotes.
John Adams – “This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."
George Washington – The father of this country was very private about his beliefs, but it is widely considered that he was a Deist like his colleagues. He was a Freemason.
George Washington's practice of Christianity was limited and superficial because he was not himself a Christian. He repeatedly declined the church's sacraments. Never did he take communion, and when his wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside the sanctuary. Even on his deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual, uttered no prayer to Christ, and expressed no wish to be attended by His representative.
Benjamin Franklin - ". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."
Thomas Paine – Each of those churches shows certain books, which they call revelation, or the Word of God. The Jews say that their Word of God was given by God to Moses face to face; the Christians say, that their Word of God came by divine inspiration; and the Turks say, that their Word of God (the Koran) was brought by an angel from heaven. Each of those churches accuses the other of unbelief; and, for my own part, I disbelieve them all.
Other founders who were deists...Ethan Allen, James Madison & James Monroe.
Also, when the Constitution was written they wanted to ensure that no single religion make the claim of being the official national religion like England had. Nowhere in the Constitution does it mention religion exception in exclusionary terms. However, the words “Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, and God are never mentioned – not even once. The 1796 treaty with Tripoli states that the US was “in no sense founded on the Christian religion”.
founding
You need to read up on your history of this country.
Why does it matter what the origins of slavery were? The fact is, most of the founding fathers either owned slaves or families' had owned slaves. Washington owned hundreds of slaves, although he freed them as part of his will upon his death. What do you mean, slavery came much later. Later than what? This country still condoned slavery for 100 years. As far as the founding fathers and our rights we protect here's some info:
It's important to differentiate the Constitution that the Founding Fathers cooked up from the Bill of Rights. Today when we think of the protections of the American system, we usually think of the shining example of ethics and goodness contained in the Bill of Rights. These are the first ten amendments to the Constitution. They are primarily the work of George Mason (1725-1792). He would have been a Founding Father because he was a delegate to the convention from Virginia, but he refused to sign the Constitution. He realized that it failed to protect individual liberties and failed to oppose slavery.
Mr. Mason lobbied against adoption of the Constitution just as many of the Founding Fathers lobbied against the Bill of Rights. Most of the Founding Fathers disapproved of giving ordinary citizens such liberties as freedom of religion, freedom from unreasonable search and torture, the right of free speech and so forth. In fact, when John Adams (1735-1826) was president (1797-1801), he took away freedom of speech.
The Bill of Rights is really the people's voice against the Founding Fathers; liberty against conformity.
_________
As far as the Native American disgrace/slaughter, all I can say is you have an interesting viewpoint that is not shared by many indigenous. Bhoo-zhoo.
Men and woman and mothers and fathers are speaking now. sm
Many of whom have fought in Iraq. They are on television right now. But you won't watch it. It would be too hard for you. YOu would be screaming obscenities at them. Do you know, they had to bleep out part of the antiwar march yesterday in DC because of the obscenities and vulgar language. That is what you are, obscene and vulgar and unpatriotic.
Any of you live in the midwest? Just in case you live down the road from me...
I live in Wisconsin and am often also in Minnesota.
No, I'm not a stalker or a weirdo (my opinion, anyway).
Yeah, tell me again how liberals want to live and let live....what a joke!!!! nm
why not just tell the truth? That only extends to liberals.*I have had it with Republicans...* a whole group of people tossed out like garbage. *I will not respond to your posts nor read them.*
As to Ann Coulter...the left has their share..Michael Moore, AL Franken...do you ever look at your own party?
That is the most INtolerant post I have seen here in a LONG time.
Liberals true colors always come out...regardless of how much they say they are the MOST tolerant, and want EVERYone to live and let live...everyone if you happen to be liberal.
We are all Americans...and America is about debate. Tell me, liberal Democrat, again how you care about ALL Americans. Talk about ringing hollow.
From a founding member of Delta Force
http://www.dailynews.com/portlet/article/html/fragments/print_article.jsp?article=3641046
'Unit's' military expert has fighting words for Bush
By David Kronke, TV Critic
U-Entertainment
Eric Haney, a retired command sergeant major of the U.S. Army, was a founding member of Delta Force, the military's elite covert counter-terrorist unit. He culled his experiences for Inside Delta Force (Delta; $14), a memoir rich with harrowing stories, though in an interview, Haney declines with a shrug to estimate the number of times he was almost killed. (Perhaps the most high-profile incident that almost claimed his life was the 1980 failed rescue of the hostages in Iran.) Today, he's doing nothing nearly as dangerous: He serves as an executive producer and technical adviser for The Unit, CBS' new hit drama based on his book, developed by playwright David Mamet. Even up against American Idol, The Unit shows muscle, drawing 18 million viewers in its first two airings.
Since he has devoted his life to protecting his country in some of the world's most dangerous hot spots, you might assume Haney is sympathetic to the Bush administration's current plight in Iraq (the laudatory cover blurb on his book comes from none other than Fox's News' Bill O'Reilly). But he's also someone with close ties to the Pentagon, so he's privy to information denied the rest of us.
We recently spoke to Haney, an amiable, soft-spoken Southern gentleman, on the set of The Unit.
Q: What's your assessment of the war in Iraq?
A: Utter debacle. But it had to be from the very first. The reasons were wrong. The reasons of this administration for taking this nation to war were not what they stated. (Army Gen.) Tommy Franks was brow-beaten and ... pursued warfare that he knew strategically was wrong in the long term. That's why he retired immediately afterward. His own staff could tell him what was going to happen afterward.
We have fomented civil war in Iraq. We have probably fomented internecine war in the Muslim world between the Shias and the Sunnis, and I think Bush may well have started the third world war, all for their own personal policies.
Q: What is the cost to our country?
A: For the first thing, our credibility is utterly zero. So we destroyed whatever credibility we had. ... And I say we, because the American public went along with this. They voted for a second Bush administration out of fear, so fear is what they're going to have from now on.
Our military is completely consumed, so were there a real threat - thankfully, there is no real threat to the U.S. in the world, but were there one, we couldn't confront it. Right now, that may not be a bad thing, because that keeps Bush from trying something with Iran or with Venezuela.
The harm that has been done is irreparable. There are more than 2,000 American kids that have been killed. Tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis have been killed � which no one in the U.S. really cares about those people, do they? I never hear anybody lament that fact. It has been a horror, and this administration has worked overtime to divert the American public's attention from it. Their lies are coming home to roost now, and it's gonna fall apart. But somebody's gonna have to clear up the aftermath and the harm that it's done just to what America stands for. It may be two or three generations in repairing.
Q: What do you make of the torture debate? Cheney ...
A: (Interrupting) That's Cheney's pursuit. The only reason anyone tortures is because they like to do it. It's about vengeance, it's about revenge, or it's about cover-up. You don't gain intelligence that way. Everyone in the world knows that. It's worse than small-minded, and look what it does.
I've argued this on Bill O'Reilly and other Fox News shows. I ask, who would you want to pay to be a torturer? Do you want someone that the American public pays to torture? He's an employee of yours. It's worse than ridiculous. It's criminal; it's utterly criminal. This administration has been masters of diverting attention away from real issues and debating the silly. Debating what constitutes torture: Mistreatment of helpless people in your power is torture, period. And (I'm saying this as) a man who has been involved in the most pointed of our activities. I know it, and all of my mates know it. You don't do it. It's an act of cowardice. I hear apologists for torture say, Well, they do it to us. Which is a ludicrous argument. ... The Saddam Husseins of the world are not our teachers. Christ almighty, we wrote a Constitution saying what's legal and what we believed in. Now we're going to throw it away.
Q: As someone who repeatedly put your life on the line, did some of the most hair-raising things to protect your country, and to see your country behave this way, that must be ...
A: It's pretty galling. But ultimately I believe in the good and the decency of the American people, and they're starting to see what's happening and the lies that have been told. We're seeing this current house of cards start to flutter away. The American people come around. They always do.
THE UNIT
What: Action-adventure about special-ops unit.
Where: CBS (Channel 2).
When: 9 p.m. Tuesdays.
---
David Kronke (818) 713-3638 david.kronke@dailynews.com
Yes, as in Obama is trampling roughshod over much many of our founding principles"
"Much many" in this context means "ALL". Has sort of a nice ring to it, doncha think?
live and let live
I read your post. It is based on accusations, which is all anyone can really go on as Hitler is not here to pick his brain. It also states Hitler felt they were capitalists, which was a reason why he wanted to destroy them. I also know what my many NYC jewish friends talk about when we talk about WWII and concentration camps which we have talked a lot about over the years. As an aside, from someone who calls me hateful all the time, you do need to look within. To call Chomsky despicable filth for no reason other than you disagree with him and his ideology is really quite scarey and sad. This is America, where we can believe and worship anything we want and if a person does not like it, they can put it out of their mind and live their life and let Chomsky and every one else, who does not think like you, live theirs. Long live Chomsky and every other Communist, Socialist and Capitalist in America. Viva America!!
we DO want to live and let live
We just get a might testy when a board specifically set up for our group is invaded by people who just want to name call, endlessly recycle false propanganda, and obsess over foibles. Separate but equal, I say. You can go to the conservatve board and just rehash and regurgitate all 10 Fox talking points and you won't be bothered by me, rest assured.
I live on the GC.
I don't hate anyone! They ignored the warnings and blamed the government because they did not listen.
Again look at Andrew and Ivan people prepared and then WORKED to rebuild their lives and they did not blame FEMA.
I am not from PA, but I live in PA....
and the people I know were offended. And so they should be. Lots of folks in flyover America are offended. He made a blanket statement and it offended a lot of rural folks whose jobs are on their farms. There are a lot of people in PA whose jobs have not been outsourced. That is the trouble with blanket statements. There are a lot of small towns in PA and not all of us are bitter. We do not cling, we embrace our second amendment rights and our religous beliefs...through good times and bad. If we did not, then we might indeed BE bitter.
Obama does not know me. And I suspect he does not know a lot of rural America. Our vote counts too. Maybe he should not have painted such a broad stroke.
Maybe where you live......not here
I have known plumbing business owners my entire life and they ain't rich by a long shot. They do okay. They employ lots of people, which should be the main concern here.....employment. They perform a service you sure as shoot would want.
Same with electricians. Both professions are tough jobs and I have no problem with them doing well if they can. My brother worked for a plumbing company when he was younger and was called out in the freezing cold to crawl under homes to replace pipes, homes that might at any minute collapse they were so old. He found himself in so many dangerous situations replacing pipes. H@ll fire....they couldn't pay him enough for what he did.
Electricians crawling around in spaces I wouldn't want to go. In the middle of summer here in the south, one had to crawl around in a very small space above our home to run wires and you couldn't pay me enough to do that job. I thought they were going to pass out from the heat. I was more worried about them.
And the A/C - heating guys. Aren't you glad they're there when you need them. Do I want to see them taxed out of business? Who would?
I'm sure good 'ole Obama would want one of them showing up in the middle of the night if his heat went out and he wants warmth. Of course, he has the money to pay for that middle of the night housecall. We don't but that's not the company owners fault. We're slapping down the very people who keep this country rolling.
Obama is a joke! Snide hypocrit.
I and others do not want to live like the
people from the Holocaust had to. This is coming from other countries too.
Obama's own words - I will change the world. That will not be his job if he is elected. People from Germany see hitler in him. People in Brittain say he's a bad choice. People from all over say the Obama camp was how Hitler rose to power in Germany. Not my words theirs.
So go ahead and praise lord Obama. Others have enough sense to see him for what he is.
Most of us do not live
in your parallel universe on the fringes, including a good number of life-long REAL conservative economists found in my citations. It does not take more than a minute or 2 to come up with references and resources, that is if you do anything else with your time other than spend it reading the info on walls of the right-rag outhouses. It comes as no surprise you cannot find any info from the real world there.
But suit yourself. You don't have time to educate yourself or do any research before you open your potty mouth? Fine with me, but don't expect anybody with a triple-digit IQ to take you seriously.
Ain't bipartisan support a b*itch?
Don't know where you live, but in LA,
they cannot arrest someone who is a known illegal criminal who has already been deported, unless a new crime is committed, so police can spot dangerous gange members whom they have already arrested and deported in the past, but there is nothing they can do until another crime is committed. It is ridiculous.
Where do you live?
If you voted for Obama, you are one of the two types of voters. Now, you either live in an area where there is enough working people that you never really see the downside of where all your taxes really go, or you know plenty who mooch already and feel you must stick up for them for some reason, why is that? Afraid you won't be "loyal" or do you feel you're entitled?
I believe in working for a living.... unfortunately, our government has long since forgot what a sovereign country is all about and managed to create an entire welfare country in just a few short decades!
Do you live in CA?
x
I don't know where you live....
but people do not jack off in libraries in my neighborhood. Evidently, since you are implying this is LAW or a proposed bill that is imminent (which it is not), you have failed to notice that people are NOT flaunting their wedding tackle in your local library.
Because MOST of them live off YOU and ME!!
--
I don't know where you live....(sm)
but you should really try getting out of your little box. The issue with marriage isn't whether or not a man and woman can marry, but rather whether a gay or lesbian couple can marry. Remember Prop 8? That would be the law that just recently passed saying it was illegal for gays and lesbians to be married. They previously had this right -- It has now been taken away with Prop 8, funded by the religious community.
Good for you...Where you live that is...nm
I live near MacDill and know
some people there, including my stepdaughter. They have been talking draft for some time now. My friends are against it; they feel working side by side with someone who does not want to be there is demoralizing. The administration, however, is rabidly obsessive about this and we all know what happens when they get their sights set on something. Also there has been much talk of foreign persons serving in our military, sort of like the French Foreign Legion; romantic...yes, practical, hardly. On the one hand we have the ** fears and queers** tactics spun to perfection by this administration. If anyone other than they are in office, we will be attacked. Cheney even got on TV and said Ohio, Florida and Pennsylvania would be prime targets if Kerry was elected president, what a coincidence these were swing states with a lot of clout. And if the terrorists didn't get us, the homosexuals would. The fear tactic has worked wonders for them. What does not get much press (imagine - and us with a liberal press and all) is the government's willingness to allow complete open and free access to our country in certain instances....Dubai company running shipping ports, some ports of entry not being scrutinized at all, like say Tampa Bay, about 1 mile from MacDill, better known as CentCom. And now, they think foreigners in our military is a good idea. If that is not a shot direct to the heart of operations, if that is not aiding and abetting and enabling and empowering enemies I don't know what is. We can't know all sorts of things because it will **empower the terrorists** and we have to sacrifice our privacy and our rights because *the terrorists gonna get us..** but we are not only going to allow, but invite foreigners to join our military ranks, at the same time as building a 700-mile wall to keep foreigners out. Nuff said.
I live in upstate NY
I believe in G-d, most of my liberals friend do as well, but not all of them. I have a few conservative friends who are athiest.
If you live on the GC, you were paying about
nm
You must live in another country! Sorry, but the
I was better off, made more money, paid lower taxes, and had more job security during the Clinton Administration than now. Same with all my MT friends & co-workers.
Sure, there are people who don't live within
their means. But are totally discounting the fact that there thousands of people out there who are just trying to get by and do live within their means. I know a lot of people who have no credit cards, do not drive fancy cars and buy their clothes at Wal-Mart only when they need them. These people are making the same amount that they made years ago but are paying more because of the rising costs of fuel, heating fuel, groceries, electricity, etc. These are people who have always lived within their means, and now can barely afford the necessities. Are you really too biased to see that?
only 80 people live there?
maybe. could be. Some say. It was reported that.
Do you live in Ohio?
x
And if you did live in Ohio - sm
You might be able to vote three or four times. :)
When did I say I wanted to live in
a Socialist society. I don't. Neither do I want an unstable person with a fiery temper with his hand on the nuke button.
As I live and breathe!
I have followed your posts for a while. A month or so back, I replied to you saying that even though I am an enthusiastic Obama supporter, I think your solution to your relative ambivalence toward both candidates is a really good one. You have identified a person who most closely represents your beliefs and have decided to do a write-in. I think Mr. Dobbs will receive more than a few of those. Even though I cannot buy into his immigration crusade and he is a bit on the conservative side for me, I do admire him in terms of his style and the fairly polite manner in which he expresses his views and delivers the news and I can understand his appeal to independents.
It is very refreshing to see somebody who takes their vote seroiusly and seeks to use it in support of somebody, instead of casting a vote "against" somebody else...an undesirable position in which I have often found myself in the past.
I really think that Karma will be doing its thing and that campaigns founded in hate speech, mispresentations and slaughter of truth will go the way they need to go....to the trash heap. I hope you will be able to maintain your principles and cast your vote in support of your best choice and I look forward to reading more of your sensible and insighful middle-of-the-road viewpoints in the future.
you live in dumbsville.....
http://www.obamacrimes.com/attachments/028_Obama,%20Motion%20for%20Leave%20and%20First%20Amended%20Complaint.pdf
TRUTH JUST EATS AT YOUR GUT DOESN'T IT?
You want to know about |AIG first hand? I live in...sm
Stowe Vermont. The Stowe ski resort was built as a pet project many years ago by AIG. It was very low key for many, many years for many reasons, zoning etc. So lovely and pristine, no high rise condos, a quaint small town Vermont experience. A few years ago, after years of wrangling, permits were obtained for a huge VERY luxury hotel, ski base lodge, million plus dollar condos, high end shopping in a ski village etc. Fast forward a few years, the hotel is completed and the base lodge almost done, condos halfway complete, no village yet. I guess that technically we Americans now own 80% of this resort. Maybe I can get a subsidized ski pass? I haven't heard of any slow down with the development, but I could be wrong. I wonder if we will be sold off but I doubt it. Very interesting. No one has any idea of the excesses of corporate America over the last 50 years.
So you must live in one of the good
I managed to live through the 60s and 70s.
I know exactly what to expect and remember it as a time when American behaved like America and I was able to feel strongly patriotic about my country. For all those prophets of doom, I can assure you, it won't be fatal.
Oh please....what world do you live in?
Remember the Rodney King incident? Any excuse. Wonder why OJ wasn't convicted? Sure as heck wasn't because he was innocent! Pleeeze! You live under a rock?
You think if a black president were to be injured or worse by some thug there wouldn't be rioting? If whites were screaming and yelling all up and down the street, they would be called racist but if blacks are rioting, burning, killing because a black person suffered injustice, then they think they are in the right.
I'm not sticking my head in the sand and pretend the facts aren't there.
Depending on where you live
@
You can blame those that tried to live beyond their
//
I know where I live they do have to study and take a ..
test to become an american citizen, then they can legally work in America and pay taxes. I don't know what it is like where you live though.
The one with the nightstick DID NOT live in the
building, he was asked/escorted to leave by the police. The other one does live in the building and can stand/wear what he wants.
Can't live in the past - have to look to
Being that I live in Michigan and s/m
have a father that retired from General Motors and have a lot of friends that have either retired from there or currently work there, it is a big combination of blame. I blame the union, General Motors and the employees for letting a lot of this happen. GM paid the "fat cats" (that is what they are called around here) big money for skilled trades for them to sit around and do nothing, literally nothing. It is a big joke around here that some go and clock in and turn around and go straight to a bar and then go back to clock out. If they are needed, someone will call their cell and let them know they are needed.
It has been common for years to allow employees to work 70/80 hour weeks, massive overtime and my father was one of them. He was making over $130k a year, if not more when he retired. I know it was hard physically on him to do it, but he said that he mostly read on the job and exercised. A friend's husband goes to work to sleep.
I am not saying that everyone does this, but a majority of them do and it is a real shame. I know the ones on the lines cannot do it, but the skilled trades can and do. If the salaried employees complain, then the union gets involved and they still get to keep their jobs no matter how many times they are written up. It takes a lot to get an employee fired.
Just think, something breaks on the line, so they call in the skilled trades guy who has been at the bar drinking, he comes and fixes whatever is wrong, creating a quality problem and then GM has to charge so much money to cover the expenses. And we wonder why they are over priced? And they want to be bailed out? No thank you!
The GM execs have been getting millions of dollars in bonuses for years as well and the employees get a nice check before Xmas as well for a bonus. They should have been like any other company and budgeted their money. Shame on them. If they had quality vehicles at a reasonable price, people wouldn't be buying foreign cars. I personally do drive a GM vehicle because of the discount that I get from my dad. Otherwise, I would probably be buying foreign as well, you get what you pay for.
Sorry to rant, but living in a GM town and not working there, you can get a different perspective on things than what is shown in the news/media. Forgive me if I have offended anyone.
Is it Saturday where you live too? nm
I live in the South too s/m
I bet if you start researching you'll find displaced auto workers in your area. A lot of them have settled in NW Arkansas to take advantage of work with Wal-Mart and their suppliers. You people who love to research via Fox News and Youtube might do well to get out there and research with people who have BTDT. Then you might get the TRUE picture. I doubt you'll find a single WORKER who gets paid for playing checkers...now the upper brass might be a different story.
Unless you live in Ohio and had to put up
with the crap that Taft was throwing out and saw first hand what Kenneth Blackwell did against his own party to try to make things right, you really can't make any kind of judgment calls. He's a good man, one of the very few left in politics these days, and I wish there were more like him. And yes, I do live in Ohio.
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