Catholic Archbishops Are Speaking
Posted By: Suze on 2008-08-26
In Reply to:
Here is a mere sampling of responses to Nancy Pelosi's attempt to rewrite the abortion issue on Meet The Press on Sunday. Flame their words all you want, but this goes back throughout the archives at the Vatican. Also, Pope John Paul was just as outspoken regarding this subject as Pope Benedict is.
If someone can find a way to justify abortion after reading these posts, all I can say is "good luck." Do your own research and you'll see where many Catholics "in charge" are far from impressed with this. Search Pelosi abortion, Biden, etc., and you'll find plenty. Evangelicals feel the same way.
http://thehill.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=75650&Itemid=70
And another from the Washington Post:
Archbishop scolds pro-choice Biden
Valerie Richardson and Julia Duin
Tuesday, August 26, 2008
DENVER | Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. arrived at the Democratic National Convention on Monday amid rumblings over whether his pro-choice Catholicism would help or hurt the Democratic ticket.
An Irish-Catholic from a working-class upbringing, Mr. Biden won the nod as presumptive presidential nominee Barack Obama's running mate in part because of his appeal to blue-collar Catholics, the same voters who swung during the primary for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.
Although he represents Delaware in the Senate, Mr. Biden grew up in Pennsylvania, a must-win state for Democrats in November.
But the party's hopes of winning the critical Catholic vote took a hit Sunday when Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver said Mr. Biden should avoid taking Communion as a result of his pro-choice stand on abortion.
Archbishop Chaput, who was scheduled to lead a pro-life candlelight vigil Monday night here in front of Planned Parenthood, called Mr. Biden's support for abortion rights "seriously wrong," said archdiocese spokeswoman Jeanette DE Melo.
"I certainly presume his good will and integrity," said the archbishop, "and I presume that his integrity will lead him to refrain from presenting himself for Communion if he supports a false 'right' to abortion."
The archbishop, who was not invited to speak at any convention events in what appeared to be a deliberate snub, told the Associated Press that he would like to speak privately with Mr. Biden.
The debate underscored what has emerged as a central theme of this year's convention: the tension between the Democratic Party's renewed outreach to religious voters and its long-standing support for unfettered access to abortion.
At a panel discussion Monday sponsored by Google on "The Shifting Faith Vote: What It Means for the Election," panelists said that concerns over social issues, such as poverty, are moving some faith-based voters away from the Republican Party.
At the same time, they haven't aligned with the Democrats, primarily because of the abortion issue.
"The push for the Democratic Party is to have a new position on abortion," said Steve Waldman, Editor of the religious Web site beliefnet.com. "When you look at Catholics and evangelicals, you see that they agree with 80 percent of what [Mr. Obama] says, but there's this stumbling block with abortion."
Whether pro-choice Catholics should take Communion became a major issue in 2004 during Democrat John Kerry's run for the presidency when more than a dozen bishops, including Archbishop Chaput, publicly asked the senator from Massachusetts not to present himself for the Eucharist.
Their stance may have given a boost to President Bush, who increased his share of the Catholic vote from 47 percent in 2000 to 52 percent in 2004.
Catholics, the nation's largest religious voting bloc, represent 26 percent of the electorate. Alexia Kelley, executive director of Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good, said that 11 percent of those this year are considered "swing voters," more than in any recent election year.
Catholic advocacy groups didn't wait long before weighing in on the "wafer wars." The conservative Catholic group Fidelis condemned the selection of Mr. Biden.
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Not being Catholic........ sm
I don't know all the intracasies of the rite of communion in the Catholic Church, but as a Baptist, I do know that our pastor asks each person to examine their own heart before taking communion as we believe that taking communion with unrepented sin does bring damnation on the individual. HOWEVER, at least in my church, he would never go so far to tell a person whether or not they were "worthy" of taking communion. That decision is between the individual and God alone.
Catholic Church
Nancy Pelosi's big mouth is the last problem the Obama campaign wanted to contend with.
In its newly ratified platform, the Democratic Party reinvigorates its commitment to abortion.
This time Nancy Pelosi has truly gone too far -- which isn't good news for Joe Biden either.
Found at spectator.org. Other info at wnd.com
roman catholic
The Roman Catholic church believes that any nonbarrier birth control method is abortion. That includes birth control pills, I.U.D, patch, anything.
They also believe that every sexual act should be open to the gift of a baby by God, therefore condoms and diaphragms are not really keeping things "open."
They also believe that avoiding sex during your fertile period using the "rhythm method" is also bad because theoretically you could avoid having children altogether.
However, it is not a mortal sin not to have children, just follow the above rules.
So Pro-Life really is not a political issue. It really is a religious issue that they turned into a political issue.
I don't know about the catholic Bible sm
but have you ever really sat down and read your Bible or are you depending on a priest to interpret for you. You should sit down with your Bible and pray for the Holy Spirit to reveal his word to you.
Your Catholic propaganda belongs on the
*
I didn't take this as catholic propaganda
Yes, it's obvious it was created by catholics, but the overall message was vote your conscious (p.s. I'm Athiest so if anyone I would be offended). Yes, I could have done without putting catholic this or catholic that up there, but the message was clear to me - vote your conscious (and they didn't tell me who I should vote for - that's a plus in my book).
I am also Roman Catholic. What's wrong with that?
Aren't Catholics, Protestants, Greek Orthodox, Roman Orthodox etc....all Christians? I not understand.
And I am pro choice, up to the 4th month. I think it is better than bringing a child into this world, for which I am not prepared and deep down do not welcome, out of different reasons.
And I prefer an abortion to giving up my baby for adoption. I would not be able to sleep a single night, having given my baby to strangers.
If I were Catholic, think I would have more things to worry about.
First, I find it hard to believe that any religious group would want to run such a slanted story. A prolife group could turn around with abortion films to say some of these would have turned out to be priests. With all the abuse going on in the Catholic church, I think some of their energy would be better spent in cleaning their own home first.
o.k., inside the catholic school....nm
nm
bone up - he also attended Catholic school
so do you think he is the antichrist now?
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/
The catholic school offered several choices of
--
I blame the Catholic church for allowing this to go on for so very long. SM
I have a lot of conservative friends and I seriously doubt they would condone this. I knew there was a reason I stayed away from these boards. As the poster above said, your post came up in a headline or I would never have come here.
He attended only 4 years in this Catholic School in Jakarta,
1st to 5th grade, age 7-11 years, from 1968 till 1972.
Can you beat my research?
not THEIRS, mother is American and Catholic, father and stepfather Muslim..
yes and Islamic teachings only t h e s e 4 years in Jakarta, Indonesia, and maybe only 2 years.
Barack was 7-11 years old at that time.
SC Roman Catholic priest says Obama supporters shouldn't receive
By MEG KINNARD | Associated Press Writer
9:04 PM EST, November 13, 2008
COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) _ A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."
The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.
"Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein.
"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation."
During the 2008 presidential campaign, many bishops spoke out on abortion more boldly than four years earlier, telling Catholic politicians and voters that the issue should be the most important consideration in setting policy and deciding which candidate to back. A few church leaders said parishioners risked their immortal soul by voting for candidates who support abortion rights.
But bishops differ on whether Catholic lawmakers — and voters — should refrain from receiving Communion if they diverge from church teaching on abortion. Each bishop sets policy in his own diocese. In their annual fall meeting, the nation's Catholic bishops vowed Tuesday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights.
According to national exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Obama, who is Protestant. In South Carolina, which McCain carried, voters in Greenville County — traditionally seen as among the state's most conservative areas — went 61 percent for the Republican, and 37 percent for Obama.
"It was not an attempt to make a partisan point," Newman said in a telephone interview Thursday. "In fact, in this election, for the sake of argument, if the Republican candidate had been pro-abortion, and the Democratic candidate had been pro-life, everything that I wrote would have been exactly the same."
Conservative Catholics criticized Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry in 2004 for supporting abortion rights, with a few Catholic bishops saying Kerry should refrain from receiving Holy Communion because his views were contrary to church teachings.
Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said she had not heard of other churches taking this position in reaction to Obama's win. A Boston-based group that supports Catholic Democrats questioned the move, saying it was too extreme.
"Father Newman is off base," said Steve Krueger, national director of Catholic Democrats. "He is acting beyond the authority of a parish priest to say what he did. ... Unfortunately, he is doing so in a manner that will be of great cost to those parishioners who did vote for Sens. Obama and Biden. There will be a spiritual cost to them for his words."
A man who has attended St. Mary's for 18 years said he welcomed Newman's message and anticipated it would inspire further discussion at the church.
"I don't understand anyone who would call themselves a Christian, let alone a Catholic, and could vote for someone who's a pro-abortion candidate," said Ted Kelly, 64, who volunteers his time as lector for the church. "You're talking about the murder of innocent beings."
___
On the Net:
St. Mary's Catholic Church: http://www.stmarysgvl.org/
Not quite- 2 years Catholic, 2 years Muslim. NM
X
huh? He did this after school hours, in the catholic school...nm
nm
you were speaking of yourself, right?
So patriotism is a mental illness. Well, it probably is to you, so that does make sense. Yes, mental illness is love of country, pride in the military and thanks for their sacrifices. You don't have any of that, so you are fine. No problem. Glad we cleared that up.
Speaking only for myself....it is getting....
harder and harder to distinguish between liberals and leftists, as there are more and more posting calling themselves *liberals* but posting the way left stuff that only used to come from what I call leftists...the far left. In other words, the lines are becoming REAL blurry...also difficult to separate Democrats from leftists as the party slides farther and farther left....or at least it appears so, or the moderate and conservative Democrats have just gone silent in shock or apathy....I don't have the answer. You just don't hear from them anymore....at least I don't.
Was I speaking to you?
Can't resist the impulse to interrupt somebody else's conversation, I see. That's what Hannity does whenever he is losing his grip on his liberal guests. Transparent.
I was speaking of
reasoning voters. Please excuse me for not clarifying that.
speaking of ron .....
My hubs saw the "vote for Ron Paul" signs and asked me if it was a joke. I said what do you mean, and he said, "isn't that the tranny?"
Almost wrecked the car laughing so hard. Had to explain to DH that the tranny is Rue Paul. OMG LMAO!!!!
Speaking for myself,
there are not many born conservatives. I think conservatism is something that ''grows on you,'' or something that you grow into. I was a teenager in the sixties, with many of the attitudes that implies. As I aged and became more responsible and and started to ''get it,'' got a real job and wanted promotions, began earning money and wanting to hold onto it, bought a house and cared about what happened to my neighborhood, etc., I became more conservative. I dont think I am the only one to become more conservative as I've aged. I suspect celebrities are the same. You can only be a free spirit so long. As the Nationwide commercials say: Life comes at you fast.
Speaking of credibility...
You promised to grace us with your absence before, yet your posts are multiplying like bunnies all over this board. So much for YOUR credibility.
It was obvious you were speaking for
.
Your illness speaking for you again?
My take on your mental illness has nothing whatever to do with your political persuasion. But you have illustrated that you are too ill to understand that. You are annoying and I will not pay any more attention to your childish and sick comments.
It's actually a woman speaking. sm
This is very significant because this was on Al-Jazeera TV and what she says is pretty chilling. I clicked on it and it worked for me. I am sure you can find it somewhere else on the internet. Just for the record, I am not so sure he is president material myself. I dont doubt his leadership in the war on terror, but I am disappointed in other things.
I was speaking to Democrat, actually. sm
Since the story was copied and pasted here, I would like the specific source. I am sure Democrat understands.
I assume you are speaking of me.
First of all, for your information since you obviously cannot or will not read, I despise Bush. Your intolerance tells the world (these boards are read by the world, after all) that the liberal left in the United States has become the party of intolerance, anti-Israel, anti-American. You don't appreciate the freedoms you have and you live a world coloured by hopelessness and despair. I really pity you. Since I don't vote in the United States, I am neither left nor right. But of course, it's easier to label and name call, as you seem so very good at. The realisation may hit one day that you have a very narrow view of the world out there.
Plainly speaking.....
what difference does it make? But in an attempt to answer a loaded question, I thought these boards lent themselves more to ideologies than to politics. These boards are here even when elections are not. There is no "liberal party" and no "conservative party" that I am aware of. Do you only "Think Liberal" about politics? Do you build your life around politics? I thought liberalism (and conservatism for that matter) transcended politics. Pardon me if I gave too much credit.
Speaking of values
Golly how many times are you going to bring this up about Clinton like it is truly important in the problems our world faces? It's like you are completely nutso about this, over and over and over and over and over and over and over......wow!
I think it is terrifying and heart-wrenchingly sad that with the genocide, starvation, astounding poverty globally PLUS this war we have created with how many hundreds of thousands of civilians killed including babies, pregnant women, children plus the US dead and countless with TBI and amputations....that the thing that you totally obsess over is Clinton and his sex and his lie to the court over something that should never have gone to court in the first place. JFK would have been in deep you-know-what had he ever been brought to task for his philandering....and he probably would have covered things up, too.
How pathetic that this nation is more interested in sex scandals than the multitude of catastrophic problems facing our population on this planet. It shows how shallow and value-less we can be.......impeaching someone over sex.....how about impeaching someone over the death of 1/2 a million people for dubious reasons and political gain.....
Hey - just asking, Speaking from experience.
That's why I work at home.
Well then, speaking of unsupervised
If you're daughter is busy continuing her education with a toddler, and we know how much hard undivided work has to go into a master's, then your grandchild must be really unsupervised and no telling how she might turn out. And then, to have put so much time and effort into that degree, of course she would want to go for a really good job, demanding, time consuming, taking a lot of time away from her child. Would you dare tell your daughter your thoughts on that subject? Probably not!!!
Comparitively speaking........... sm
considering the UAW has been offered the same as workers in foreign companies, we would have to assume that the cut we would receive would bring us down to what the MTs in India are making. Are you ready to work for a nickle a line?
I'm not taking up for the UAW because I believe their skills needed for doing their jobs are no less than the skills needed to do our jobs. People's safety ride on our ability to do our jobs properly as well as auto workers. Just playing devil's advocate for a while.
speaking of powerless
Obama gets voted in and Dems run the House, Senate, and WH. Use your imagination to see how far left this country goes.
If people want to live in socialism, leave the USA as it was established (capitalism). Go to France, etc. since it's such a great way to live.
Speaking from experience?
xx
Speaking futurewise here
I am speaking in the future here - - what artificial insemination - - there wouldn't be any.
I believe she is speaking in tongues! (nm)
:)
historically speaking
when the worker keeps less than 50% of his/her pay, it brings revolution. It is what this country was founded on. Under Obama's plans the average worker will get to keep .38 cents on the dollar. You will work 8-9 months of the year and not get one cent for it. Wow, that sure doesn't sound too good for the middle class to me, but under Obama's plan we should all be working for the "common good." Sound familiar to anyone? But personally, I see an even bigger issue here. Money is not the only riches we have. We Americans are rich in freedoms, and too many people are taking them for granted. People in this country are lining up to give away their freedoms to a charismatic new leader who promises "change." Things will change all right, but be careful what you wish for because you just might get it and it might not be what you expected.
Subconscious speaking out perhaps????
xx
You are speaking in terms of only 1 ...
Calm down and have another drink of your Obama Kool-Aid and watch the other 2, maybe you will catch it.
We would all be speaking Urdu by now.
xx
Speaking of character...
Just because a Georgia congressman needs some publicity (like a 2-year-old, bad attention is just as good as good attention) and says something stupid, people jump all over it.
There are whackos in Congress, just as there are in the general public. A perfect example is Michele Bachmann who trashed Obama on national television, and when she saw it backfired on her, she quickly produced a commercial saying some nonsense about her words not always coming out right but her heart being in the right place. (And then she blamed the host of the show for tricking her into saying these outlandish things.)
After the election, she then went on to do a 180 and issued the statement below.
After suggesting that Barack Obama had anti-American views in an exchange three weeks ago with MSNBC host Chris Matthews, Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) told Politico Thursday that she was "extremely grateful that we have an African-American who has won this year." She called his victory "a tremendous signal we sent."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/06/bachmann-praises-obamas-w_n_141922.html
Did you ever think that speaking is fine, but
nm
Speaking of Americans.........
What they all need to do is not come together and accept whatever a president throws out there. Most Americans doesn't have a clue that BIG government is NOT a good thing. They actually believe the government should take care of them, that the government is to make all decisions for this country. No one ever told them that government is not supposed to be involved in their lives and no, it is not my place to sit back and be all one united group that just lets government ram anything and everything down my throat.
If you want to sit back, hold hands, and sing a little tune, then you do that. I do not care for more government; when has government ever solved a problem? Since when has government ever took your money and done something besides blow it? You think your government knows better than you how to spend your money? You think you should be paying income tax in the first place? Anyone who has fallen for "it's patriotic to pay taxes" garbage is the reason this country is where it is to this day. They hand it all over, sit back and say "we should all unite"......and do what? If you want to unite for something, then unite to tell YOUR government enough already. You don't not want more government, more taxes, more social problems, which is exactly what Obama wants. We've got enough social problems and wasted money. You want more? I don't.
You want to come together, then come together to get government out of our lives. But what do you see? Just the opposite. So many Americans are just to used to having someone else tell them how/what to do, they don't think for themselves anymore and they sit quaking in their boots when they hear a candidate that stands up and says enough government, no more government. It scares them to death because all they know is government interference in their lives. They actually believe that is their government's job, to make all their laws and tell them how to live.
I know what I am talking about, speaking from
So please don't pass judgment. You don't know me.
Speaking of ignorance....(sm)
I just love it when people try to wallow around in righteous, indignant self pity. If you're so concerned about the plight of the Jewish people, why don't you go and help out your grandmother?
Ask yourself this question. Since Great Britian and the UN thought so highly of Jews as to actually declare them a separate nation, why didn't they create that nation in Europe? My guess is that there were 2 reasons. Number one would have to be the *not in my backyard phenomenon.* The other was simply as a controlling interest in the region. The reality is that Britian didn't give a rat's butt about the Jews. They just picked the most susceptible minds (at the time) to carry out their plans. They sold the idea of backing Isreal through religion and still do, just like the US does. One big clue to this is exactly how much we actually back Israel. We have brought them up to the level of nukes while they are still just fighting against homemade bombs. We (the US) look the other way when Israel kills hundreds of Palestinians, but will run a prime time special if 2 (not 200, just 2) Israelis are killed. Yeah, that's a fair fight. We back other leaders in the middle east, but only to a point (Saddam for example). Once they get to a point where they may actually become a threat to Israel (a holding interest for the west) we always manage to call them a threat for some other reason and level the playing field.
I really wish people would look at the big picture on this one. From a political standpoint, Israel is nothing more than a bishop in a chess game.
What speaking style? You mean all his
nm
Speaking of retarded...
look in the mirror and you will see one. This proves how stupid O voters are....
He was on TV a few minutes ago speaking about this......
He said he is now waiting to hear back from the government to see if he is "allowed" to practice medicine basically. So now the government wants to tell the doctors they can't actually give healthcare to a patient unless the government tells them if they can...... yea, that's a free society alright!!
http://www.1010wins.com/Regulators-Frown-on-NYC-Doctor-s--79-Flat-Fee/3960786
speaking of sins..
Got a bunch of sins, according to your Bible. Looks like you're sinning all over the place dear - Got a million more if you want em.
accusing - Jude 9:2
arguing - Titus 3:9
bitterness - Acts 8:23
not receiving a child of God sent by God - Mark 6:11
speaking against God's children - Act 2:28
thinking evil in your heart against God's children - Matthew 9:4
busybodies - Timothy 5:13
condemning - Luke 6:37
foolish conversation - Eph 5:4
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