Bottom line, Taiga....
Posted By: Observer on 2007-11-30
In Reply to: Check the source for Observer's Murtha article.... - Taiga
did Murtha or did Murtha not say "The surge is working?" Yes, he did. Why did CBS choose not to print all the disclaimers? You got me, I don't know. As to Murtha adding the disclaimers, he probably suddenly remembered he is going to have to talk to Pelosi come Monday. I don't blame him, I would be backpedaling too. lol.
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The bottom line is....
from 1870 to the 1960's the majority of elected Democrats in Congress, with the help of a small minority of southern Republicans, effectively denied African Americans the right to vote for 90 years FOLLOWING the civil war. If you are saying that seeking their freedom and giving them the right to vote is a "liberal" movement, then it was the Republicans in majority, not the Democrats in majority, who were the "liberals" of that time.
In my mind, we are all tied up in semantics. The passion and commitment to something that to each of us is morally right is not liberal nor conservative. It is a human characteristic. None of us, I suppose, are truly liberal or truly conservative. It is a mixture. Some "liberals" agree with me that abortion is morally wrong and are against it for that reason, yet still consider themselves liberals. Some "conservatives" (such as Guiliani) do not agree on abortion and are pro choice, yet still call themselves conservative. I made a comment on the conservative board regarding the fires in California and was accused of sounding like a "bleeding heart liberal." So, in essence, over time people have identified certain characteristics and tried to put them in a liberal or a conservative box. And because we are human, and because we are different and have different ideas, we do not fit into boxes and ideas cross over. Hence, no true liberals or true conservatives....and that fact does not bother me at all, though it does bother some.
It is just that some of us love the labels more than others, I guess; the labels make them feel good, like they are affiliated with something noble...and what the labels mean to us individually, and some get very angry if someone questions the label.
I guess my prefrence is not to be labeled.
And that is what it is...a label, in the grand scheme of things. Because no one can really agree on what it means. Everyone puts their own personal spin on it. That is the nature of the human condition.
Bottom line
Obama is going to win, that's what counts.
He must do something right, if the majority wants Barrack Obama.
bottom line...
After the attack of 9/11 something HAD TO BE DONE.
What other options were there?
Doing nothing was sure not an option.
That IS the bottom line...
That's the only reason it is being offshored. It has nothing to do with "free trade" and everything to do with corporate greed.
The bottom line is....(sm)
Torture does not provide reliable confessions.
Torture has not and will not "save American lives." If it has done anything, it has put more lives at risk.
Waterboarding was used in WWII against US personell by the Japanese. We prosecuted those who used torture and executed them. Why? Because it was against the law. And what did the Japanese get for their efforts with torturing? False information and a bad reputation. What makes you think we'll get anything different from that?
The only thing torture is good for is revenge. That's not what this country is about, and its not what I'm about.
Okay. This is exhausting. Bottom line...
I did not say Teddy you are a liar. Nor will I. Only you know for sure if you are lying. And you have said ad nauseam you don't care what I think or say, so why do keep protesting so much? Sigh.
What I believe or do not believe does not matter at this point to anyone but me. I vote we stop whipping this dead horse.
Well said. That is the bottom line. I have already voted....sm
for Obama/Biden and am proud of my choice. No one should ever legislate what a women can do with her own body, or a man's for that matter, but abortion is the subject here. As is with everything in life, I believe we will all have to answer for all our choices throughout our lives. That is between you and your God. Abortion could definitely be dramatically reduced if there weren't so many barriers to education and birth control and less talk about the "welfare mother" when women do choose not to have an abortion. I think that the main problem is that people are very judgemental. I am old, and, overy the years, I have learned that the old saying "walk a mile in my shoes" before your judge me probably should be either one of the Constitutional Amendments or one of the Ten Commandments.
I think that when judgement day comes, God is going to ask me, what did you do for your fellow human beings out of the goodness of your heart that did not benefit you directly in any way. Did you love your neighbor (even your enemies) as yourself? Did you bear false witness against your neighbor and spread rumors, get down and dirty because of differences of opinion in an election or in your daily life? That is what I imagine God is going to ask me in a few years and I am thinking about how I am going to answer.
The bottom line is that he's not lying about it. It's just
z
Bottom line: Either way, WE lose. At least, if the bill
doesn't pass until it strips the wall street & banking criminals of their ill-gotten gains, then EVERYONE will have to pay. But as the bill is currently written, WE have to pay. We're screwed, either say. Once this dies down a bit, I'm pulling every cent out of the stock market forever. I don't want my hard-earned savings, what little there is, going to making shysters rich.
GAME OVER!
Bottom line...are you in favor of infanticide? nm
nm
Bottom line....O will raise DH and my taxes, sorry, it's not for
those who are lazy. Try working hard for a change and not expecting the gov't to give you a handout for once. WAAAH, please pay for my healthcare, pay for my kid's college, help me out because I don't want to take responibility for myself, I would rather let the gov't do it all and then when it doesn;t work out, I can blame them too. When O wins I can't wait to see this board in a year with all the people complaining about the broken promises, higher taxes, etc. It will be worth the wait.
Bottom line, no one can renounce the citizenship...sm
of an American citizen, period, whether they are adopted by a noncitizen or not. Obama had the right to claim Nigerian citizenship at age 21 but did not.
Bottom line here. O does not claim to be messiah
Anybody who subscribes to such nonsense on any level whatsoever is the one who is confused.....VERY confused.
But, it did not happen with Clinton and that is the bottom line
Why, oh why do the people continue to uphold a president who has wound up at the bottom of the barrel as far as what kind of presidency he had. Very good riddance. Yes, we can.
So,. bottom line, I am European born
and I have proven that my grammar and spelling is better than yours.
Sometimes I make some typos, but last not least this is a froum and on this forum there is no 'typo police' applied, not even 'grammar and spelling police.'
Go and take your meds, I bet you swallow tens of those every day and night, and pray!
Bottom line...they made a 68 million dollar PROFIT.
PROFIT is AFTER expenses. So I am thinking they are doing pretty darn well, don't you? They are not in it for the goodness of their hearts.
And it says plainly on the website they will take checks for anything but abortions. So that says to me cash or credit card. IF there is another explanation for that, please share.
It has been awhile since there was a bombing or a shooting, and I don't condone either. Killing abortionists or bombing clinics is not the answer. Changing minds and providing alternatives is the answer. But going with the flow and remaining quiet while mass murder of the unborn goes on is something I cannot do, and sorry if I find it horrifying that PLanned Parenthood makes such a KILLING for killing. THere is THAT.
last line of Matthews piece cut off in error. 1 line sm
complained in a letter to his boss that Matthews had shown a pattern of sexism.
Hi there Taiga! sm
I think both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are very intelligent and dynamic individuals. My only exception to Hillary was her yes vote regarding Iraq. As a woman I would be quite enthralled to see, for the first time in American history, a woman elected to the highest office in the nation. I'm old enough to remember when the political arena was strictly off limits to women, and if she gets elected this would be a historic first!!
Sheeeessshhhh, Taiga....
Do you like it better from Common Dreams? Pay special attention to the part out distancing himself from the antisemitic comments (McGovern).
Published on Saturday, June 18, 2005 by CommonDreams.org
John Conyers' Letter to the Washington Post
June 17, 2005
Mr. Michael Abramowitz, National Editor;
Mr. Michael Getler, Ombudsman;
Mr. Dana Milbank;
The Washington Post,
1150 15th Street, NW, Washington, D.C. 20071
Dear Sirs:
I write to express my profound disappointment with Dana Milbank's June 17 report, "Democrats Play House to Rally Against the War," which purports to describe a Democratic hearing I chaired in the Capitol yesterday. In sum, the piece cherry-picks some facts, manufactures others out of whole cloth, and does a disservice to some 30 members of Congress who persevered under difficult circumstances, not of our own making, to examine a very serious subject: whether the American people were deliberately misled in the lead up to war. The fact that this was the Post's only coverage of this event makes the journalistic shortcomings in this piece even more egregious.
In an inaccurate piece of reporting that typifies the article, Milbank implies that one of the obstacles the Members in the meeting have is that "only one" member has mentioned the Downing Street Minutes on the floor of either the House or Senate. This is not only incorrect but misleading. In fact, just yesterday, the Senate Democratic Leader, Harry Reid, mentioned it on the Senate floor. Senator Boxer talked at some length about it at the recent confirmation hearing for the Ambassador to Iraq. The House Democratic Leader, Nancy Pelosi, recently signed on to my letter, along with 121 other Democrats asking for answers about the memo. This information is not difficult to find either. For example, the Reid speech was the subject of an AP wire service report posted on the Washington Post website with the headline "Democrats Cite Downing Street Memo in Bolton Fight". Other similar mistakes, mischaracterizations and cheap shots are littered throughout the article.
The article begins with an especially mean and nasty tone, claiming that House Democrats "pretended" a small conference was the Judiciary Committee hearing room and deriding the decor of the room. Milbank fails to share with his readers one essential fact: the reason the hearing was held in that room, an important piece of context. Despite the fact that a number of other suitable rooms were available in the Capitol and House office buildings, Republicans declined my request for each and every one of them. Milbank could have written about the perseverance of many of my colleagues in the face of such adverse circumstances, but declined to do so. Milbank also ignores the critical fact picked up by the AP, CNN and other newsletters that at the very moment the hearing was scheduled to begin, the Republican Leadership scheduled an almost unprecedented number of 11 consecutive floor votes, making it next to impossible for most Members to participate in the first hour and one half of the hearing.
In what can only be described as a deliberate effort to discredit the entire hearing, Milbank quotes one of the witnesses as making an anti-semitic assertion and further describes anti-semitic literature that was being handed out in the overflow room for the event. First, let me be clear: I consider myself to be friend and supporter of Israel and there were a number of other staunchly pro-Israel members who were in attendance at the hearing. I do not agree with, support, or condone any comments asserting Israeli control over U.S. policy, and I find any allegation that Israel is trying to dominate the world or had anything to do with the September 11 tragedy disgusting and offensive.
That said, to give such emphasis to 100 seconds of a 3 hour and five minute hearing that included the powerful and sad testimony (hardly mentioned by Milbank) of a woman who lost her son in the Iraq war and now feels lied to as a result of the Downing Street Minutes, is incredibly misleading. Many, many different pamphlets were being passed out at the overflow room, including pamphlets about getting out of the Iraq war and anti-Central American Free Trade Agreement, and it is puzzling why Milbank saw fit to only mention the one he did.
In a typically derisive and uninformed passage, Milbank makes much of other lawmakers calling me "Mr. Chairman" and says I liked it so much that I used "chairmanly phrases." Milbank may not know that I was the Chairman of the House Government Operations Committee from 1988 to 1994. By protocol and tradition in the House, once you have been a Chairman you are always referred to as such. Thus, there was nothing unusual about my being referred to as Mr. Chairman.
To administer his coup-de-grace, Milbank literally makes up another cheap shot that I "was having so much fun that [I] ignored aides' entreaties to end the session." This did not occur. None of my aides offered entreaties to end the session and I have no idea where Milbank gets that information. The hearing certainly ran longer than expected, but that was because so many Members of Congress persevered under very difficult circumstances to attend, and I thought - given that - the least I could do was allow them to say their piece. That is called courtesy, not "fun."
By the way, the "Downing Street Memo" is actually the minutes of a British cabinet meeting. In the meeting, British officials - having just met with their American counterparts - describe their discussions with such counterparts. I mention this because that basic piece of context, a simple description of the memo, is found nowhere in Milbank's article.
The fact that I and my fellow Democrats had to stuff a hearing into a room the size of a large closet to hold a hearing on an important issue shouldn't make us the object of ridicule. In my opinion, the ridicule should be placed in two places: first, at the feet of Republicans who are so afraid to discuss ideas and facts that they try to sabotage our efforts to do so; and second, on Dana Milbank and the Washington Post, who do not feel the need to give serious coverage on a serious hearing about a serious matter-whether more than 1700 Americans have died because of a deliberate lie. Milbank may disagree, but the Post certainly owed its readers some coverage of that viewpoint.
Sincerely,
John Conyers, Jr.
FYI, I googled it because I had heard that Conyers tried to distance himself after the antisemitic rant of McGovern. The Front Page thing came up. First time I have ever read Front Page, had no idea it was a hard right wing site. From now on I will look for the far left wing sites, how's that? The truth is the truth, doesn't matter what "page" it is posted on. GEEEZZZ.
All righty then, Taiga....
we can finally put this to rest. You are posting as Taiga, and you close the post with:
"And if all this has grown tiresome why do you continue to read my posts and respond?"
So, Teddy, tell me again how you do not post under different monikers. Can we please drop this whole liar thing now???
Yup, Taiga has come out of the closet
Where did I ever say I don't post under other monikers?
Taiga is the name I have used on the Medquist board for just about as long as this board has been in existence. I had always thought it wise to keep a political persona separate from a work persona but with all these accusations of fraud and "untruthfulness" I will no longer be using Teddy and will stick to Taiga from now on with any posting I do on the MTStars board.
Actually my original moniker on the political board, going back several years, even back to when both libs and cons were put together under one grouping was "Observer." When you began posting as "Observer" I switched to Teddy for obvious reasons. So in the end, there really are more than one of us elitist, snobbish jerks out there!!
For the record, Teddy/Taiga....
the rest of the post said when it wasn't in response to what had been thrown at me first. Methinks you are very guilty of what you always accuse me of....cutting and pasting out of context. Teddy is taking over again.
It does not matter who reported it, Taiga...
there are facts within it that are not in dispute. Take the Tim Russert thing for example. He had the pictures of the 747 fuselage at Salman Pak. He showed it on his TV show. He showed it to Cheney. Only at that time, it was RUSSERT who was saying to CHENEY "Can you honestly sit there and tell me you don't think there is a 9-11 connection?" That is a fact, Taiga. It happened. I can see why no one else would report it. And as to timely? You have to report it when it happened. And it did happen. All I am saying is...basically you can't believe ANYONE because the left wing and the right wing have been on both sides, top and bottom of this issue. They have all flip-flopped on it. So WHO do you believe? I tend to believe the picture. I have seen the picture. They showed the picture on TV numerous times (the Salman Pak picture). And as the article stated, none of those facts are in dispute, even from the 9-11 commission, except one.
As to the 9-11 Commission...don't get me started. Did you actually watch any of it while it was happening? Talk about a stacked deck and questions asked to get certain answers. What a JOKE that was. That being said, there is a lot of information that came out that never made it to the "assessment" they put out. I was watching it during the time George Tenet testified. He says in his book he never said slam dunk, but he darn well did, I HEARD him. And that never made it into the "assessment" either. I purposely watched as much of the 9-11 hearings as I could, because I knew a lot was not going to make the "assessment." Independent they were not. That was exceedingly obvious from the questioning.
I do not understand your penchant for "timely." If something happened, it happened. That is what I mean about selective memory. You remember it if it is germane to your discussion, and you dismiss it as "the past" (like it never happened) and use "timely" as an excuse. I really don't get that. But, I don't have to...whatever floats yer boat.
Not even close Teddy/Taiga....
not EVEN close. lol.
Actually, I answered your posts line by line
about not "allowing" you to have an opinion. Those are your words, not mine. This is a good example of how this discussion has escalated from a simple link to this utter squashed bug nonsense. Why are you not able to simply debate the original issue at hand...the Eric Holder appointment? Too much of an intellectual challenge when somebody presents a THIRD-PARTY alternative viewpoint? You are the one who mentioned losing sleep and I remarked that it was probably unnecessary since you were blowing something out of proportion....something you have been doing all afternoon. You takes things WAY too personally.
Your figures just further validate Taiga's post.
She said, "Actually the vote went by geography rather than party lines as is obvious below." Your figures support that statement.
For Taiga...sorry I did not answer your post about CBS and Politico...
as to I should let CBS know that the Iraq link in their article went to Politico....this is from the CBS news site:
From Our Partner:
soooooo I'm thinking CBS knows that the link went to Politico...ya think?? You falsely accused me, and you were wrong. I DID get my article from CBS.
Just keeping the record straight.
There are bottom feeders of all...
stripes, tis true, but we are talking about Coulter here. She also is an embarassment along the lines of Rush and O'Reilly. There are many conservative personalities who do not engage in outright cruelty directed towards specific individuals or groups.
Rush's new bottom.
I do not listen to Rush but I saw this on television and read it in the paper. Michael J. Fox has done a commercial for the democrat running in Missouri who is pro stem cell research. He is obviously having a really bad day or his Parkinson's has progressed since I last saw him. Anyway, Rush said that Fox was **acting,** flailing all over the place, that he knew Fox had Parkinson's but that he has never seen any symptoms of it before this political ad. He said Fox might have stopped taking his medication so that he would flail around more, but if not, then he was acting. Unfrigging believable. I have seen Fox unable to sit still or stop moving many many times even while taking medication over the years. I think he was diagnosed in 1994 so 12 years later he has probably deteriorated quite a bit. This just struck me as so mean-spirited. Knocking the homeless, the mentally ill, etc. is one thing, disgusting in my opinion, but to accuse a sick man of faking it is snake belly low. People in glass pill bottles should not throw stones.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart ...sm
for posting this, though I feel that it falls on deaf ears. Sadly the bigots and racists are still in denial. I am old and white and it is hard to pull the wool over my eyes too. I voted today for Obama/Biden. The going will be rough for whoever wins, but I have hope with Obama and I have not had this much hope in a long time.
try this one. Look at the table at the bottom
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/senator_obamas_four_tax_increa.html
Then on your list of bottom feeders
Don't forget Al Franken and Michael Moore just to name a few examples. Oh, and don't forget liberal internet columnist Deborah Frisch who told a conservative foe:
*if someone shot you and your 'tyke' it wouldn't slow me down one iota.' She also wrote that she hopes 'no one Jon-Benets' the child* -- a reference to the brutal murder of a young Colorado girl ten years ago -- and made disturbing sexual remarks about the boy. *I reiterate: If some nutcase kidnapped your child tomorrow and did to her what was done to…Jon-Benet Ramsey, I wouldn't give a damn.*
That is bottom feeding in all its glory. Ann may have a big mouth, but I don't think she's ever threatened to kill someone's kid and/or sexually abuse them.
i like the idea of starting at the bottom
giving the common people a break rather than sticking us from behind. I don't know what the monetary amount should be per mortgage. I heard Whoopi this morning throwing out the idea of 25% to the people who have taken out mortgages since 2003. One of the gals on the view also talked about these people who were given these loans that were very low interest at the beginning and then after a few years had the interest raised. Why can't the mortgage companies offer them a lower interest rate again? At least they would be getting something!! They are all greedy. I think the idea of bailing the mortgage companies out is disgusting. I realize people should never get in over their heads to begin with but these mortgage companies and any government official who had a hand in it were out for themselves, thinking in the end they were going to win..... no loss to them.... well guess what? they got a little too greedy and I think rather than slapping their little hands, THEY should be the ones to pay the price. I don't care if it's Rush's idea, Whoopi's, etc... How about for once our government listens to the PEOPLE of this country rather than looking out for their own butts.
tax cuts?? just look at the table at the bottom
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/senator_obamas_four_tax_increa.html
where do you people come from? the bottom of the gene pool?
in anyway!!!
Geez. Well, just proved that the bottom of the barrel...
had not been reached until just now. What a nasty, sick comment.
Aren't we NOWat the bottom? How much lower can it get?
Therefore we need CHANGE.
'You don't seem to understand.' Favorite sentence of McCain addressing Obama.
Geeeezzzzzzz. And I thought they had already found the bottom of the barrel...
I don't believe that, but if she did, what the heck difference would it make???
Geezzzzzz.
maybe if you would have paid better, you wouldn't have had to scrape the bottom of the barrel -nm
:)
and jobs that pay min. wage often have to scrape the bottom of the barrel - nm
:)
I saw that clip earlier today and it is exactly right. And you can bet your bottom dollar on this...
Alarmist video? Who knows. Scare tactics? Who knows, but one thing I believe is there will be class war fare, food riots, and when Obama has taken all our guns away, then what???
It has happened in the UK with Sharia Law, in Australia they confiscated all guns, France with their huge Muslim population, and it sure as H.E. double-hockey sticks can happen here. And if Obama gets elected, you can take that to the bank. He will strip mine our country to its bones.
My DH has a saying..the tree of freedom has to be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots. Or words to that effect.
Perez Hilton is a troll and bottom feeder.....
He serves no useful purpose in this life or any life. I agree with Miss California though. Marriage SHOULD be between a man and a woman. Sorry Perez, but I guess I would lose the pagent too.
The mainstream media hogs you speak of are actually those bottom dwellers at MSNBC and
broadcast news, NOT Hannity or any of those to whom you refer.
Nicely done Taiga, nicely done :)
Point well made. I still don't see what Observer's rant had to do with the topic of the thread though.  Oh well. Can't make sense out of nonsense I guess.
Don't you get it? SP 1st in line. JM=72.
nm
That is really out of line and
comparing Obama to Hitler? Talk about paranoid. There is nothing to suggest Obama is Marxist or Nazi. This is all hate and pot stirring rhetoric. Boy some people just operate on fear and are sour grapes that the majority of the people have spoken and Obama was chosen.
You really should come up with a better line.
No such thing as Bush juice. But I wouldn't expect less from someone on the kool-aid.
That's the only line you took from the speech...sm
But you think Bush who admits that he did drugs - obviously inhaled or sniffed, and was an alcoholic is a living testimony of credibility. Is there a double standard here?
Newsweek on-line
nm
Oh geez. The least you could do is get a new line...
you asked me that same question under a different moniker not long ago. At least get some new material. Geez! And as far as emailing you...not in this lifetime. I did that once...once burned, many time shy. You guys can get pretty hateful on this board, but a sailor could take lessons from you when you are uncensored...LOL Had enough of potty-mail all-tolerant liberals to last me a lifetime. And anybody knows you can have more than one email going to the same place. Geez. Get a new schtick. This one is oldddd.
The last line of your post is....
So, the "God is telling me I need to fight for all unborn fetuses" is a religious issue and should be there. Tired of seeing line after line after line of religious opinions on the political board.
You also said this: If your trying to make an argument with the "I'm fighting for all the unborn fetus'" and God is telling you this, blah, blah, blah, that's all great but it should be on the "Faith" board.
I never said anything remotely like that. To suggest I did is not true. TO use your own words, I take offense to someone who makes judgments about me without knowing me. You can make judgments about me, but no way should I make any about you?
Generally when something is not true it is a lie. I did not directly call you a liar. However, I apologize for any inference if there was any. How's this? What you said is not true. I never said God told me to do anything. I never said religion was my motivator. You made assumptions about me and you don't know me.
It is not hard to read posts on abortion at all, in caps or not. Just don't click to open it.
You and the others have made your point ad nauseam about how tired you are of it. I am tired of being told what I can post and what I can't, just as tired as you are of seeing abortion threads. And none of the threads would be near as long as they are if "they" ( I won't include you since you say you are not one of them) didn't pile on and bash me. It would just beone lone post. And believe me, as tired as you are of seeing abortion posts I am tired of the endless bashing that goes with them.
Yes, I said if it chaps you so be it, and it obviously does. You are basically saying the same thing to me: stop the abortion posts or take them somewhere else, and if it chaps you, so be it. Okay for you, not okay for me.
And to use your words..enough has been said about it and it is getting old.
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