Bin Laden as anti-fur demonstrator and vegan?
Posted By: sm - Starcat on 2005-12-21
In Reply to: Carter and Clinton snooped on you too - rr
New Files Show FBI Watched Domestic Activist Groups
By ERIC LICHTBLAU, The New York Times
[0]
Getty Images
One of the groups targeted by the FBI was People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.
More Coverage:
· Cheney Cites Presidential Power
· Post-9/11 Law May OK Spying
· Dems Deny Approving Wiretaps
Talk About It: Post Thoughts
WASHINGTON (Dec. 20) - Counterterrorism agents at the Federal Bureau of Investigation have conducted numerous surveillance and intelligence-gathering operations that involved, at least indirectly, groups active in causes as diverse as the environment, animal cruelty and poverty relief, newly disclosed agency records show.
F.B.I. officials said Monday that their investigators had no interest in monitoring political or social activities and that any investigations that touched on advocacy groups were driven by evidence of criminal or violent activity at public protests and in other settings.
After the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, John Ashcroft, who was then attorney general, loosened restrictions on the F.B.I.'s investigative powers, giving the bureau greater ability to visit and monitor Web sites, mosques and other public entities in developing terrorism leads. The bureau has used that authority to investigate not only groups with suspected ties to foreign terrorists, but also protest groups suspected of having links to violent or disruptive activities.
But the documents, coming after the Bush administration's confirmation that President Bush had authorized some spying without warrants in fighting terrorism, prompted charges from civil rights advocates that the government had improperly blurred the line between terrorism and acts of civil disobedience and lawful protest.
One F.B.I. document indicates that agents in Indianapolis planned to conduct surveillance as part of a Vegan Community Project. Another document talks of the Catholic Workers group's semi-communistic ideology. A third indicates the bureau's interest in determining the location of a protest over llama fur planned by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.
The documents, provided to The New York Times over the past week, came as part of a series of Freedom of Information Act lawsuits brought by the American Civil Liberties Union. For more than a year, the A.C.L.U. has been seeking access to information in F.B.I. files on about 150 protest and social groups that it says may have been improperly monitored.
One FBI document indicates that agents in Indianapolis planned to conduct surveillance as part of a Vegan Community Project. Another document talks of the Catholic Workers group's semi-communistic ideology.
The F.B.I. had previously turned over a small number of documents on antiwar groups, showing the agency's interest in investigating possible anarchist or violent links in connection with antiwar protests and demonstrations in advance of the 2004 political conventions. And earlier this month, the A.C.L.U.'s Colorado chapter released similar documents involving, among other things, people protesting logging practices at a lumber industry gathering in 2002.
The latest batch of documents, parts of which the A.C.L.U. plans to release publicly on Tuesday, totals more than 2,300 pages and centers on references in internal files to a handful of groups, including PETA, the environmental group Greenpeace and the Catholic Workers group, which promotes antipoverty efforts and social causes.
Many of the investigative documents turned over by the bureau are heavily edited, making it difficult or impossible to determine the full context of the references and why the F.B.I. may have been discussing events like a PETA protest. F.B.I. officials say many of the references may be much more benign than they seem to civil rights advocates, adding that the documents offer an incomplete and sometimes misleading snapshot of the bureau's activities.
Just being referenced in an F.B.I. file is not tantamount to being the subject of an investigation, said John Miller, a spokesman for the bureau.
The F.B.I. does not target individuals or organizations for investigation based on their political beliefs, Mr. Miller said. Everything we do is carefully promulgated by federal law, Justice Department guidelines and the F.B.I.'s own rules.
A.C.L.U officials said the latest batch of documents released by the F.B.I. indicated the agency's interest in a broader array of activist and protest groups than they had previously thought. In light of other recent disclosures about domestic surveillance activities by the National Security Agency and military intelligence units, the A.C.L.U. said the documents reflected a pattern of overreaching by the Bush administration.
It's clear that this administration has engaged every possible agency, from the Pentagon to N.S.A. to the F.B.I., to engage in spying on Americans, said Ann Beeson, associate legal director for the A.C.L.U.
You look at these documents, Ms. Beeson said, and you think, wow, we have really returned to the days of J. Edgar Hoover, when you see in F.B.I. files that they're talking about a group like the Catholic Workers league as having a communist ideology.
The documents indicate that in some cases, the F.B.I. has used employees, interns and other confidential informants within groups like PETA and Greenpeace to develop leads on potential criminal activity and has downloaded material from the groups' Web sites, in addition to monitoring their protests.
More From the Times
* · New Drug Points Up Problems in Developing Cancer Cures
* · In Holiday Displays, Tributes Remembering the War Dead
* · New Airline Navigation System Is Displayed
In the case of Greenpeace, which is known for highly publicized acts of civil disobedience like the boarding of cargo ships to unfurl protest banners, the files indicate that the F.B.I. investigated possible financial ties between its members and militant groups like the Earth Liberation Front and the Animal Liberation Front.
These networks, which have no declared leaders and are only loosely organized, have been described by the F.B.I. in Congressional testimony as extremist special interest groups whose cells engage in violent or other illegal acts, making them a serious domestic terrorist threat.
In testimony last year, John E. Lewis, deputy assistant director of the counterterrorism division, said the F.B.I. estimated that in the past 10 years such groups had engaged in more than 1,000 criminal acts causing more than $100 million in damage.
When the F.B.I. investigates evidence of possible violence or criminal disruptions at protests and other events, those investigations are routinely handled by agents within the bureau's counterterrorism division.
But the groups mentioned in the newly disclosed F.B.I. files questioned both the propriety of characterizing such investigations as related to terrorism and the necessity of diverting counterterrorism personnel from more pressing investigations.
The fact that we're even mentioned in the F.B.I. files in connection with terrorism is really troubling, said Tom Wetterer, general counsel for Greenpeace. There's no property damage or physical injury caused in our activities, and under any definition of terrorism, we'd take issue with that.
Jeff Kerr, general counsel for PETA, rejected the suggestion in some F.B.I. files that the animal rights group had financial ties to militant groups, and said he, too, was troubled by his group's inclusion in the files.
It's shocking and it's outrageous, Mr. Kerr said. And to me, it's an abuse of power by the F.B.I. when groups like Greenpeace and PETA are basically being punished for their social activism.
Complete Discussion Below:  marks the location of current message within thread
The messages you are viewing
are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select
the boards given in left menu
Other related messages found in our database
Bin laden's family are NOT bin laden. They disowned him years ago. Please. nm
/
Hello there fellow vegan
Okay, have to admit I'm not total vegan but am trying. I love beans too. We eats tons of black beans, garbanzo's, and some navy beans and lately been on a homemade split pea soup kick. I do love beans, less meat (we stick to mainly chicken and ham. Although I still won't eat a fava bean (mainly because they said it was like a lima bean and lima beans are repulsive to me).
Is that what they laughed about. I had forgotten.
So am trying here to be more vegan myself. There are certain veggies I just cannot get enough of (brussel sprouts for one).
If you have or know of any good recipes or websites of how to transition more veggie I'd love to hear from you. More than welcome to send me an email.
Thanks and let me know how you like the fava beans.
Anti-Semitism versus Anti-Zionism
I wanted to address an exchange below that occurred between myself and a couple of others on the board (just the big bad and another poster who did not use anything to identify herself) last night. In response to my post about the righteous prevailing meaning the Israeli's would prevail because they are the "righteous", just the big bad responded "So was Hitler righteous?" She was likening the Israeli's treatment of the Palestinians as being akin to Nazi Germany's treatment of the Jews. I then pointed out her anti-Semitic rhetoric. To which I was blasted for accusing an anti-Zionist as being an anti-Semitic.
I want to point out to many of you who hold strong opinions regarding the Israel/Palestinian conflict, there is a very fine line between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism, a line that was very clearly crossed when just the big bag posted her Hitler remark, a line many have crossed in this discussion by likening the Gaza Strip to a concentration camp. When you say these things you have become an anti-Semitic. Below is an excerpt from an article written by Ami Isseroff:
If you judge a Jewish state by standards that you apply to no one else; if your neck veins bulge when you denounce Zionists but you've done no more than cluck "well, yes, very bad about Darfur";
if there is nothing Hamas can do that you won't blame 'in the final analysis' on Israelis;
if your sneer at the Zionists doesn't sound a whole lot different from American neoconservative sneers at leftists;
then you should not be surprised if you are criticized, fiercely so, by people who are serious about a just peace between Israelis and Palestinians and who won't let you get away with a self-exonerating formula "I am anti-Zionist, but not anti-Semitic" to prevent scrutiniy. If you are anti-Zionist and not anti-Semitic, then don't use the categories, allusions, and smug hiss that are all too familiar to any student of prejudice.
I think that sums it up.
No dear, it's anti-Zionist, not anti-Semitic.
Horrific is as horrific does. This long term occupation has spanned 60 years. The Holocaust spanned 12. Thanks to your Zionist government, its historic anmesia and its barbaric practices, the Jewish people have lost their exclusive claim to pain and suffering at the hands of state-sponsored terrorism aimed at the genocidal annihilation of an entire population. Your Holocaust was based on religious affiliation and racial purification. The Palestinian Holocaust is based on the ethnic cleansing of a pathologic nationalism that has been out of control for 6 decades.
You cannot declare yourself in charge of defining any other person's beliefs based on your concepts of anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism. I very painstakingly explained to you where I was coming from with that and how I make the distinction. It is the nationalistic fascist ideals that underpin the Zionist movement, not the Jewish people or their religious affiliation that are the targets of the hatred. In fact, they are also captive to their own Zionist leadership, but to a much lesser degree than the Palestinians.
The Holocaust is the only thing in recent history that can be used by comparison to describe the plight of the Palestinians. In fact, there is no parallel historical context that it can be placed in, other than perhaps the apartheid of South Africa. The most accurate description would be a combination of the two horrors.
Any way you slice it, you are trying to defend the indefensible and will never succeed in gaining any credibility, global tolerance of acceptance (except, of course from the US, who is using your country and your people for their own personal gains...better watch your backs) as long as you are the occupiers and the oppressors.
And anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage
will fix the economy? I think not. Besides anyone with half a brain cell knows BOTH of them will raise taxes on all of us. Forget tax breaks. How do you think the $700 billion and climbing is going to get paid....from money falling out of the sky????? Get real.
Anti-choice, anti-welfare,
No hypocrisy there?
Anti-gay/anti-abortion
I'm someone who believes in minding my own business. What others do in their family lives is none of my business. There hasn't been one single (or married) gay person who has ever hurt me.
On the other hand, the policies of the last eight years have hurt me a great deal. I don't have health insurance, so McCain can't tax mine, but he will tax everyone else's.
I want a President who can speak English (for a change), one who is intelligent and even tempered, and one who not only acknowledges that there is a huge problem with the middle class but whose entire platform has been devoted to solving that problem.
One day, McCain says the "fundamentals of the economy are strong." The next day, he's canceling a debate to rush back to Washington to fix the "crisis," except that he doesn't really "rush," and he didn't cancel the debate. He's running around like a chicken with its head cut off.
Obama's slogan has always been change, from the very beginning, and McCain has stolen that slogan.
I'm just personally sick and tired of politicians who are pro-corporations and anti-Americans.
Corporate tax breaks simply don't work. The beneficiaries of these breaks pocket the money. They don't create jobs; they outsource them. As MTs, we should know that more than anyone.
Obama wants to reward businesses who KEEP jobs in America. That's why I voted for him, along with the other reasons above, and that's why my daughter and son-in-law also voted for him, so he has received three votes from this household alone.
The "trickle-down" theory doesn't work and depends on the non-existent benevolence of greedy executives. It's time to try the "trickle-up" theory, IMHO.
Everyone is so upset at the thought of rising taxes. I wish someone would tell me just HOW we expect to pay for all Bush's wars, as this will fall to the next President, along with the present financial fiasco.
. . .so where is Bin Laden?
He protected nothing. He made the rest of the democratic world hate the US, throwing his weight around like a ridiculous cowboy, talking like a redneck. All he did was allow AL Queda to regroup, and they're stronger than ever.
According to the bin Laden family sm
They disowned Osama a long long time ago. In fact, the bin Laden family owns probably the largest construction company in the Middle East. They built the new U.S. military installation in Saudi Arabia. I am thinking they were allowed to leave for fear of retribution by Americans. That was always my thought and I never really questioned it because I knew of the alienation between Osama and his family.
Bin Laden got what he aimed for.....
economic ruin...........GW played right into his hands...........4 more years, 4 more years, yeah!!!! RUIN!!!!!! McSame even has a cheerleader to inspire the masses.....
Are you talking about bin Laden?
Or are you talking about an old washed up hippie terrorist who probably couldn't swat a fly?
You Republicans come back and defend the fact that bin Laden has not paid for 9/11. Don't tell me that our military could not have taken him out in 7 years!!! I suspect Cullen Powell knows more than he has ever said and that it is no accident that he is supporting Obama and not because he happens to be black either.
Osama Bin Laden
Perhaps I am missing something here but what strikes me about the above is the fact that this man has not been found (can't find someone if your'e not REALLY looking). They sure FOUND Saddam Hussein. The other thing was that when 9/111 took place, when perhaps you or a loved one was trying to get home from college, business trip, etc - all air transportation was shut down but the relatives of Bin Laden were ALLOWED to be flown OUT OF the U.S...maybe it's just me thinking about it this way...hmmm
What happened to Bin Laden? sm
Watch this Clinton interview by Mike Wallace. Clinton lets him have it with both barrels and defends why he did not get Bin Laden.
http://crooksandliars.com/2006/09/24/fox-clinton-interview-part-1-osama-bin-laden/
So, show me bin Laden! I'm sure you
that he is alive and well somewhere.
Even bin Laden is Saudi..........nm
x
It appears that Bin Laden
has threatened Americans again in a new audio tape, saying President Barack Obama inflamed hatred toward the U.S. by ordering Pakistan to crack down on militants in Swat Valley and block Islamic law in the area.
You just can't win with terrorists. No matter how nice we try to be to Muslims.....the extremists are still going to hate us and want to kill us.
Bush and Bin Laden were (are) friends!
Knew of this way back when 9/11 happened. He also had Saudi Arabians escorted out of the U.S. safely that night or the next night. Good grief! Keep up with the news!
A mission accomplished for bin Laden.
In a 1998 interview, Osama bin Laden — the terrorist organizer of 9/11 who still roams free — listed as one of his many grievances against the U.S. that Americans “have stolen $36 trillion from Muslims” by purchasing oil from Persian Gulf countries at low prices. The real price of a barrel of oil should be $144, bin Laden demanded.
Ten years ago today, the price of a barrel of oil was just $11. Heading into this holiday weekend, the price of a barrel of oil rested at $144 — a thirteen-fold increase.
One month after 9/11, the New York Times wrote of possible “nightmare” scenarios that would deliver bin Laden’s goal. Neela Banerjee warned that among the “misguided decisions” that would put oil supplies at risk would be “that the United States attacks Iraq.” The Times included this quote in its story:
“If bin Laden takes over and becomes king of Saudi Arabia, he’d turn off the tap,” said Roger Diwan, a managing director of the Petroleum Finance Company, a consulting firm in Washington. “He said at one point that he wants oil to be $144 a barrel” — about six times what it sells for now.
Bin Laden didn’t have to become king of Saudi Arabia to achieve his goal; in fact, Bush’s policies delivered it for him. The Bush administration’s catastrophic decision to invade Iraq, sink the nation into debt to pay for that war, and consequently, weaken the dollar have all caused oil prices to soar astronomically.
Testifying before the House Foreign Affairs Committee last May, Anne Korin, the co-director of the Institute for the Analysis of Global Security, reminded Congress about bin Laden’s goal:
[A]bout ten years ago, Osama bin Laden stated that his target price for oil is $144 a barrel and that the American people, who allegedly robbed the Muslim people of their oil, owe each Muslim man, woman, and child $30,000 in back payments. At the time, $144 a barrel seemed farfetched to most. […]
I would like to impress upon this Committee that $144 a barrel oil will be perceived as a victory for the Jihadist movement and a reaffirmation that the economic warfare component of its campaign against the West is a resounding success. There is no need to elaborate on the implications of such a victory in terms of loss of U.S. prestige and our ability to prevail in the Long War of the 21st century.
Only if you want to say Obama Biden Laden
Which I don't know where the Laden comes in. I don't see the similarity unless you want to see it. You need to get Osama Bin Laden out of your minds and grasp reality. Barack Obama and Joe Biden are two great men in politics. Osama? He's been out of my mind ever since Benazir Bhutto said she knew who had killed Bin Laden (then she was assissinated).
Bin Laden wanted to bankrupt the US. sm
Supporters of the Bush administration like to say that there have been no terrorist attacks on US soil since the tragedy of September 11, 2001, suggesting that President Bush has kept the country safe from terrorism. What they forget is that Osama Bin Laden clearly outlined his strategy for battling America, not by flying more planes into new buildings, but by driving the US into bankruptcy.
Show me bin Laden and maybe I'll be
a little bit.
Yes. Bush most definitely Osama Bin Laden's
NM
We've Found Bin Laden
Osama bin Laden may be hiding out in one of three walled compounds near the Pakistani border, according to scientists who've used satellites and geographic analysis in an attempt to pinpoint the fugitive terrorist's location.
University of California-Los Angeles researchers used nighttime satellite images and population-detection methods to target what they believe to be the 9/11 mastermind's hiding place - Parachinar, a town mere miles from the southern Pakistani border, according to USA Today.
The researchers took into consideration where bin Laden has been spotted and where he would likely frequent since he went underground in 2001, mapping out potential nearby lairs where the AL Qaeda leader could set up house.
The amount of available electricity and the population density of the areas bin Laden was likely to travel through were also a factor in the study's conclusions.
Geographer Thomas Gillespie, who led the UCLA research team, previously used similar techniques to locate endangered species and criminals. The bin Laden study was born out of a seminar Gillespie was teaching to undergraduates on how to use mapping techniques to solve real-life problems, USA Today reported.
Government officials told USA Today that Gillespie's conclusions could potentially hold weight once they are fleshed out and published in journal form.
"The combination of physical terrain, socio-cultural gravitational factors and the physical characteristic of structures are all important factors in developing an area limitation for terror suspects," John Goolgasian of the federal National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency told USA Today.
President Barack Obama has said on the campaign trail and in office that one of his main priorities in the White House will be to locate the terrorist leader.
"My preference obviously would be to capture or kill him," Obama told Katie Couric in a January interview.
Last week, Obama said that he would begin actions to disable al Qaeda activities in Afghanistan, though he did not have a precise timetable mapped out for action in the region.
"What I know is that I'm not going to allow al Qaeda and bin Laden to operate with impunity attacking the U.S.," Obama said on Feb. 9.
Yeah, they're definately in on it with Bin Laden.
Bush is no friend of bin Laden and isn't it ironic
that the same person who spouts the first amendment is also the one who runs to the monitor when people say something she doesn't like? Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
New 'Bin Laden message' released...sm
I guess he's still alive and sending videos.
-------------
From BBC: New 'Bin Laden message' released
Osama Bin Laden
This would be Bin Laden's fourth message this year
A new recording purportedly from al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden has been posted on an Islamic website.
He praised Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the al-Qaeda leader killed in Iraq three weeks ago, as the lion of holy war.
The video, lasting 19 minutes, shows a still picture of Bin Laden, and moving pictures of al-Zarqawi.
The recording's authenticity has not been verified, but if it is confirmed, it would be the fourth audio message Bin Laden has released this year.
However, no new video images of the al-Qaeda leader have appeared since October 2004.
Last week a video was broadcast purportedly showing the deputy leader of al-Qaeda, Ayman al-Zawahri in which he paid tribute to Zarqawi and said his death would be avenged.
Universal fight
In the latest recording, Bin Laden addresses US President George W Bush, warning him not to be too happy about Zarqawi's death, for the banner [of al-Qaeda in Iraq] hasn't dropped but has passed from one lion of Islam to another lion.
Bin Laden says al-Qaeda will go on with operations against the US and its allies.
We will continue, God willing, to fight you and your allies everywhere, he said, in Iraq and Afghanistan and in Somalia and Sudan until we waste all your money and kill your men.
In an apparent reference to a campaign against Iraq's Shias by Zarqawi, Bin Laden addressed those who accuse Abu Musab of killing certain sectors of the Iraqi people.
Abu Musab had clear instructions to focus his fight on the occupiers, he went on, particularly the Americans and to leave aside anyone who remains neutral.
He called on President Bush to return Zarqawi's body to his family, and used rhyming couplets to eulogise the dead al-Qaeda leader.
Obama/Biden - looks like Osama Bin Laden, and
nm
Bush sr having lunch with Obama Bin Laden?
freudian slip? LOL. Before you have a canniption...joke. lol.
oh please. Clinton. The Sudan offered him bin Laden...
long before 9-11 and he did not take him. Now YOU tell ME who failed to protect the American people. Good grief.
obama osama biden bin laden.....
x
BUSH PARDONS OSAMA BIN LADEN??
**** I am so glad this man is no longer the president. He is retarded!!! May want to credit him with "keeping us safe" after 9-1-1. No credit due him, Remember, we were never attacked before 9-1-1 and he knew about the attack and ignored it. PLUS -- He is friends of Osama Bin Laden's family. BYE RETARD!!
Bush, military leaders let bin Laden escape
CIA operative says Bush, military leaders let bin Laden escape
Capitol Hill Blue | January 2 2006
The top CIA counterterrorism officer who tracked Osama bin Laden through the mountains of Afghanistan says the United States could have captured the terrorist leader if President George W. Bush and the American military had devoted the necessary resources to the hunt and capture.
In addition, says Gary Bernsten, a decorated espionage officer, the post-Cold War downturn in recruitment and attention to espionage has left a crippled spy agency that will need a decade or more to build up its clandestine service for the U.S. war on terrorism.
Berntsen led a paramilitary unit code-named Jawbreaker in the war that toppled the Taliban after the September 11 attacks.
He says his Jawbreaker team tracked bin Laden to Afghanistan's Tora Bora region late in 2001 and could have killed or captured the al Qaeda leader there if military officials had agreed to his request for an additional force of about 800 U.S. troops. But the administration was already gearing up for war with Iraq and troops were never sent, allowing bin Laden was able to escape.
His account contradicts public statements by Bush and former Gen. Tommy Franks, who maintained that U.S. officials were never sure bin Laden was at Tora Bora.
Berntsen says CIA Director Porter Goss faces an uphill battle to fill the agency's senior ranks with aggressive, seasoned operatives.
He's probably more aggressive than most of the senior officers in the clandestine service. So I think he's having to pull them along a bit, Berntsen said in an interview.
(Goss) is trying to improve the situation. But it's going to be tough. The rebuilding is going to take years. A decade, at least, he told Reuters late last week.
The CIA, widely criticized for lapses involving prewar Iraq and the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington, has seen its clandestine staff dwindle to less than 5,000 employees from a peak of over 7,000, intelligence sources say.
Experts blame a post-Cold War downturn in recruitment for a current lack of seasoned clandestine operatives that has been exacerbated by a rush to lucrative private sector jobs in recent years.
We have a smaller number of really, really aggressive, creative members of our leadership in the senior service, said Berntsen, who recently published a book about his exploits in the war on terrorism, titled Jawbreaker (Crown Publishing).
Former CIA Director George Tenet told the September 11 commission in April 2004 the CIA would need five years to produce a clandestine service fully capable of tackling the terrorism threat.
Goss later said at his September 2004 Senate confirmation hearings that rebuilding the clandestine operation would be a long build-out, a long haul.
President George W. Bush issued an order last year that called for a 50 percent increase in CIA clandestine officers and analysts to be completed as soon as feasible.
The CIA is moving aggressively to rebuild and enhance its capabilities across the board, CIA spokesman Paul Gimigliano said.
But intelligence sources say the rebuilding process has been complicated by disaffection for Goss' leadership within the clandestine service.
Years of double-digit growth in federal spending on intelligence that followed the September 11 attacks may also be about to end.
John Negroponte, the new U.S. director of national intelligence, has endorsed an intelligence budget for fiscal year 2007 that is relatively flat, with current spending levels believed to total about $44 billion for the 15-agency intelligence community. Fiscal 2007 begins in October.
Berntsen, 48, who also led the CIA Counterterrorism Center's response to the 1998 al Qaeda bombings of U.S. embassies in East Africa, sued the CIA in July, accusing the spy agency of trying to stop him from publishing his book.
Gimigliano said the CIA reviewed Bernsten's book before publication only to ensure that it contained no classified information.
In the book, Berntsen says his Jawbreaker team tracked bin Laden to Afghanistan's Tora Bora region late in 2001 and could have killed or captured the al Qaeda leader there if military officials had agreed to his request for an additional force of about 800 U.S. troops.
But the troops were never sent and bin Laden was able to escape, he said.
His account contradicts public statements by Bush and former Gen. Tommy Franks, who maintained that U.S. officials were never sure bin Laden was at Tora Bora.
Posters on THIS board condone what Zarqawi and Bin Laden did?
Why? Because they don't all agree with your highness?
Point out one post on this board that condones what they did.
You're pathetic.
Why didn't Clinton kill bin Laden when he had the chance?
ARTICLE-BUSH PARDONS OSAMA BIN LADEN
Forgot to post the link for all you "naysayers" ...... MAN - Before you get on your high-horse, READ, READ, READ -- It's all over the internet. I meant to say, that Bush is friends with members of Osama Bin Laden's "family."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-rees/breaking-bush-pardons-osa_b_159272.html
ARTICLE BELOW:
WASHINGTON, DC: In a stunning late-hour development, President George W. Bush has granted Osama bin Laden a pardon for the murder of more than 2,700 Americans in the fall of 2001.
"This kinda came out of nowhere," said a White House aide who requested anonymity. "I wouldn't have put bin Laden on the short list myself. On the other hand, maybe this is the president's way of finding closure. Because ... y'know ... he wasn't actually able to kill bin Laden, or capture him, or even keep him from making all those (expletive) videos. I mean, jeez, let's face it: Osama bin Laden is basically a one-man Netflix of cave movies."
The aide paused, then went on to say, "Can you believe this dude (Bush) was actually president for eight (expletive) years? What were we thinking? Seriously, what the (expletive) were we thinking?"
The aide began weeping quietly. "May God have mercy on me for my role in the unfathomable travesty that was the Bush administration."
Conservative columnist William Kristol insisted the pardon made sense.
"George W. Bush is a brilliant strategist. I'm sure he has a good reason for this pardon. I'll figure it out."
Kristol sucked his thumb for a few minutes, lost in thought. He was then distracted by a brightly colored piece of string.
A passerby, told of the bin Laden pardon, offered a possible explanation:
"Maybe Bush is trying to smoke him out. Wasn't that the plan?"
ARTICLE-BUSH PARDONS OSAMA BIN LADEN
Forgot to post the link for all you "naysayers" ...... MAN - Before you get on your high-horse, READ, READ, READ -- It's all over the internet. I meant to say, that Bush is friends with members of Osama Bin Laden's "family."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-rees/breaking-bush-pardons-osa_b_159272.html
ARTICLE BELOW:
WASHINGTON, DC: In a stunning late-hour development, President George W. Bush has granted Osama bin Laden a pardon for the murder of more than 2,700 Americans in the fall of 2001.
"This kinda came out of nowhere," said a White House aide who requested anonymity. "I wouldn't have put bin Laden on the short list myself. On the other hand, maybe this is the president's way of finding closure. Because ... y'know ... he wasn't actually able to kill bin Laden, or capture him, or even keep him from making all those (expletive) videos. I mean, jeez, let's face it: Osama bin Laden is basically a one-man Netflix of cave movies."
The aide paused, then went on to say, "Can you believe this dude (Bush) was actually president for eight (expletive) years? What were we thinking? Seriously, what the (expletive) were we thinking?"
The aide began weeping quietly. "May God have mercy on me for my role in the unfathomable travesty that was the Bush administration."
Conservative columnist William Kristol insisted the pardon made sense.
"George W. Bush is a brilliant strategist. I'm sure he has a good reason for this pardon. I'll figure it out."
Kristol sucked his thumb for a few minutes, lost in thought. He was then distracted by a brightly colored piece of string.
A passerby, told of the bin Laden pardon, offered a possible explanation:
"Maybe Bush is trying to smoke him out. Wasn't that the plan?"
doesnt' obama biden sound too much like osama bin laden?
I would think that they are going to be losing a few votes just because of this.
Totally agree about bin Laden - but Ayers doesn't need to be able to swat (sm)
a fly. All he needs to be able to do is dial a phone and call someone else to swat it for him. He has plenty of people supporting him. You can call him a washed up old hippie if you want. I know tons of washed up old hippies who did drugs, lived in vans and protested wars. However they never tried to KILL anyone. They never tried to violently overthrow the US government. They protested but they were peaceful. Ayers group was not a group of typical peace-seeking hippies. They were almost a Manson-like cult, only much better educated and calculated in their plans and attacks. We are not talking about Ayers swatting flies. We are talking about a long-term plan by an evil man with lots of high level friends and supporters. Yes bin Laden is terribly evil, much more so than Ayers. However, the person we are talking about has been actively involved in promoting Obama's political career and is STILL NOT SORRY why don't you understand that part? for what he did and feels they should have done more. And he said this right after our attack on 09/11 happened. Do you need it spelled out for you?
Bill Clinton gets part of the blame == refused to take out bin Laden...sm
when he had the chance.
Anti-Semitism
I would be mindful of how this word is tossed around. The Arabs are Semites too.
Not too sure. There have been a lot of anti-Bush sm
and military criticism articles the last week. I think they are feeling cornered.
Also, the US doesn't kill women and children??? It's just incredible to me that anyone cannot see what a total liar Bush is. Maybe that's why the media is finally getting some guts. Fallujah is proof they kill innocents, including women and children. White phosphorus was used in Lebanon too, apparently, although not reported very widely in the U.S. like everything else. Sane people see these horrific realities, and hopefully we are growing in numbers.
I suppose you are anti-gun as well.
//
The anti-christ??
Please-with all the damage done by Bush, and Obama is the anti-christ to you?? He is a Christian man with a lovely, loving family, strong values, and wants what is best for America. And he hasn't even been sworn in yet? What is with you folks that see it necessary to act like Obama is the devil incarnate! I have prayed for my country, the my prayers have been answered. He takes office in January.
How did you get anti-welfare out of any of this?
nm
Anti-war people
All you anti-war people I would like to know what your position was right after 9-11? Were you antiwar then or screaming for the President of the United States to DO SOMETHING to protect us. That makes you hypocrites.
Shame on YOU, anti-SSM... it's not about
If the church is going to start dictating what the goverment does, then we d****d well better start TAXING them. Now THAT would be of help to the economy.
New Anti-Smoking Law
President Obama knows all too well how difficult it is to quit smoking, and today he addressed his struggle to kick the habit just before signing a law he hopes will help other people put out their cigarettes too.
"Each day, 1,000 young people under the age of 18 become new, regular, daily smokers, and almost 90 percent of all smokers began at or before their 18th birthday," Obama said today. "I know. I was one of these teenagers. And so I know how difficult it can be to break this habit when it's been with you for a long time."
The new tobacco law gives the Food and Drug Administration authority to regulate tobacco in the same way the government regulates breakfast cereals and pharmaceuticals.
"This legislation is a victory for bipartisanship, and it was passed overwhelmingly in both houses of Congress," Obama said today. "It's a victory for health care reform, as it will reduce some of the billions we spend on tobacco-related health care costs in this country."
Public health organizations and many lawmakers, several of whom joined Obama today for the signing, have been fighting for regulation for nearly a decade in hopes of helping an estimated 45 million adult smokers in the United States to kick their habit.
The law means the government will have the power to decide how cigarettes are advertised and monitor how they're promoted to young people. It means cigarette makers will be required to include new, larger warning graphics with more health information on their products and will be prohibited from using words like "light" and "low tar" in their marketing.
While the law does not have the power to ban cigarettes and nicotine outright, it does allow the FDA to reduce nicotine levels and harmful chemicals in tobacco products.
"Forty-five years after the first U.S. surgeon general's report linking cigarette smoking to lung cancer, the most deadly product sold in America will no longer be the least-regulated product sold in America," said Matthew Myers, president of Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, in a statement earlier this month when Congress passed the bill.
Within the year, a rule will also be reinstated that prohibits outdoor tobacco ads within 1,000 feet of schools and playgrounds, and bans tobacco brands from sponsoring sports and entertainment events, according to the law.
At the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network, CEO John R. Seffrin said the changes "will finally put an end to Big Tobacco's despicable marketing practices that are designed to addict children to its deadly products."
Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius also pinned high hopes on the effort.
"This legislation is a key part of our plans to cut health care costs and reduce the number of Americans who smoke," Sebelius said in a June 11 statement.
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 440,000 people die prematurely from smoking each year, with an estimated 49,000 of those deaths due to secondhand smoke exposure.
"This legislation provides a tremendous opportunity to finally hold tobacco companies accountable and restrict efforts to addict more children and adults," American Heart Association CEO Nancy Brown said in a June 11 statement. "It has been a long and challenging process to move the bill through Congress but the determination of many concerned parents and supporters has never wavered."
She isn't just antiwar. She an anti-semite. sm
She is using her son's death as a platform to spout her left-wing lies and hysteria.
anti-semite? You are truly a wacko!
Anti-semite..oh please!! You fling your thoughts about jews around these boards all the time. How awful of you to accuse Cindy Sheehan of that. She is not anti semite. I truly believe you have a hang up or obsession with jewish people by your previous posts. Can we leave the jews alone..havent they suffered enough throughout time? Focus on the true issue..THE WAR IN IRAQ AND THE UNNECESSARY DEATHS IT IS CAUSING..
Your anti-Americanism is disturbing. sm
*Sorry arses* You compare the Revolutionary War to World War II. You call names and label. You are violently nearly out of control with your anger and your very wording borders on horrendously out of control. Do people really take you seriously in discussion. If so, why?
Zionism and Anti-Semitism
Zionism and Anti-Semitism
We implore and beseech our Jewish brethren to realize that the Zionists are not the saviors of the Jewish People and guarantors of their safety, but rather the instigators and original cause of Jewish suffering in the Holy Land and worldwide. The idea that Zionism and the State of “Israel” is the protector of Jews is probably the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the Jewish People. Indeed, where else since 1945 have Jews been in such physical danger as in the Zionist state?!
Jews are enjoined by their religious laws to be loyal to the country of which they are citizens. Ever since the destruction of the holy Temple in Jerusalem and the exile of the Jewish People some two thousand years ago, we have been enjoined to be scrupulously loyal to the countries we reside in. One of the great biblical prophets, Jeremiah, in chapter 29 of his book proclaimed G-d's message to all the exiled; verse seven reads, Seek out the welfare of the city to which I have exiled you and pray for it to the Almighty, for through its welfare will you have welfare. This has been a cornerstone of Jewish morality throughout our history to this very day.
Torah-true Jews wish to live in peace and harmony with their neighbors in every country among the community of nations, including in historic Palestine. They deplore acts and policies of violence carried out by those who, misusing the name of Israel our forefather, have substituted the ideal of chauvinist nationalism for the eternal values of the Torah, the eternal divinely bestowed inheritance of the Jewish people.
It has been the age-old intention of Zionism to intentionally stir up anti-Semitism anywhere possible, and even more commonly, to take advantage of any Jewish suffering anywhere in order to enhance its cause Indeed, hatred of Jews and Jewish suffering is the oxygen of the Zionist movement, and from the very beginning has been to deliberately incite hatred of the Jew and then, in feigned horror, use it to justify the existence of the Zionist state – this is, of course, Machiavellianism raised to the highest degree. Thus, the Zionists thrive on hatred and suffering of Jews, and seek to benefit thereby through keeping Jews in perpetual fear, causing them to ignore the true nature of Zionism, and instead to consider the Zionist state is their salvation.
ANTI-SEMITISM BY POLITICAL ZIONISM
Although Zionists and others dispute it, the undeniable fact is that revolutionary secular and apostate elements in the Jewish community in Europe contributed greatly to hostility towards Jews after World War I. This aroused hatred of Jews in general among many non-Jews. While a prisoner in 1924 in the fortress of Lansberg on the River Lech, Hitler wrote his Mein Kampf. When he became Chancellor of Germany in 1933, he was assisted by Goebbels, Roseberg and Streicher. From them came the declarations, “The Jews of Germany caused the defeat of Germany in the 1914-1918 war; the Jews of Germany were responsible for the terrible conditions in Germany that followed the war; the Jews of Germany are foreigners and they wish to remain foreigners; they have no loyalty to the country of their birth; they are not human; they are filthy dogs; they have no right to intrude into Germany’s affairs; there are too many Jews in Germany.
As far as Zionism is concerned, the founder of Zionism and apostate, Theodor Herzl, sought to intensify hatred of the Jew in order to enhance the cause of political Zionism. Here are some of his “pearls”:
“It is essential that the sufferings of Jews. . . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . .I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . . The anti-semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews. The anti-semites shall be our best friends”. (From his Diary, Part I, pp. 16)
Additional words from the vivid imagination of this dreamer, from p. 68 of Part I of his Diary.
So anti-Semitism, which is a deeply imbedded force in the subconscious mind of the masses, will not harm the Jews. I actually find it to be advantageous to building the Jewish character, education by the masses that will lead to assimilation. This education can only happen through suffering, and the Jews will adapt.
Hateful views of Jews as being subhuman did not have to be invented by Nazi theorists such as Hitler, Goebbels, Rosenberg and Streicher. This ideology was simply adapted from statements of political Zionists such as those found in the writings of the Zionist Yehezkel Kaufman in 1933.
In 1920 there were statements hostile to Jews expressed at Heidelberg University. These statements, arguing that Jews of Germany had caused the turmoil that followed the war; that the Jews of Germany had nothing in common with Germans, and that Germans had the right to prevent the Jews of Germany from intruding into the affairs of their volk were not made by Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf, but by Nahum Goldmann, who went in to become the President of the World Zionist Organization and head of the World Jewish Congress, and, indisputably, the most influential political Zionist in the world, second only to the Prime Minister of the State of Israel.
In 1921, Germans in Germany were told that:
“We Jews are aliens… a foreign people in your midst and we… wish to stay that way. A Jew can never be a loyal German; whoever calls the foreign land his Fatherland is a traitor to the Jewish people“.
Who spoke these vile words? It was Jacob Klatzkin, the second of two political Zionist ideologists in Germany at the time, where the Jews of Germany were enjoying full political and civil rights. It was he who had advocated undermining Jewish communities as the one certain way of acquiring a state. “They had no qualms concerning tearing down the existing Jewish communities.”
Who spoke in a public address at a political Zionist meeting in Berlin and declared that “Germany… has too many Jews”? Was it Hitler or Goebbels? No, it was Chaim Weizman, later to become the first President of the State of Israel. This address was published in 1920, and, thus, four years before Hitler had even written Mein Kampf.
How many Zionist Jews know of this vicious treachery uttered by these senior political Zionist leaders, these apostates from the Jewish People? At the Nuremberg Trials of Major War Criminals, Nazi propagandist, Julius Streicher testified: “I did no more than echo what the leading Zionists had been saying”, it is clear that he had told the truth.
In addition to Hitler, Rosenberg, Goebbels and Streicher, many other Nazi leaders used statements from Zionists to validate their charges against the Jews of Germany. Such are the efforts of Zionist leaders to this very day to maintain a high degree of anti-semitism in order to enable them, in feigned horror, to then point to anti-semitism to support their idolatrous and anti-Jewish cause. In 1963, Moshe Sharett, then Chairman of the Jewish Agency, told the 38th Annual Congress of the Scandinavian Youth Federation that the freedom enjoyed by the majority of Jews imperiled Zionism, and at the 26th World Zionist Congress, the delegates were told that the Jew is endangered by the easing of anti-Semitism in the United States “We are endangered by freedom” he declared.
Ben Gurion's Scandals
Available in our bookstore
As we stated earlier, Zionism thrives on anti-Semitism. Ben Gurion declared, “…not always and not everywhere do I opposed anti-Semitism”. Zionists regularly pull out their handy “anti-Semite” race card against anyone, Jew or non-Jew, who dares to speak out against the wickedness of Zionism.
During World War II, the Lehi organization, an offshoot of Begin’s Irgun that was headed by Yitzchak Shamir sought an alliance with Nazis! The following is a quote from the writings of the Lehi in their contact with the Nazis:
The establishment of the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis and bound by a treaty with the German Reich would be in the interests of strengthening the future German position of power in the Near East ... The NMO in Palestine offers to take an active part in the war on Germany's side ... The cooperation of the Israeli freedom movement would also be in line with one of the recent speeches of the German Reich Chancellor, in which Herr Hitler stressed that any combination and any alliance would be entered into in order to isolate England and defeat it.
To those who assume that Zionists have been on the side of freedom and equality, these words seem strange. However, to those who understand the root of Zionism, which is the transformation and eradication of the concept of the traditional Jew and Judaism, these statements are not strange at all. They are to be expected.
The Zionists agreed with Nazism in general, even prior to the advent of Nazism. They believed that Jews could not, and should not, live in harmony in any other society in the world, and that should be removed from those societies for the benefit of those societies. They believed that the new Jewish existence in its own State would remake the image of Jews as “useless” and “parasites.” These ideas existed long before Adolf Hitler!
There is a huge amount of literature describing how the Zionists made it very difficult to save Jews during and after World War II. As various individuals and organizations were trying to arrange departures of Jews to western countries, the Zionists worked overtime to prevent this from happening. They expressed the opinion that building up the Jewish population of Palestine was more important than enabling Jews to go to third countries, and they insisted to western powers that Jews should not be accepted anywhere other than Palestine. Indeed, Yitzchak Greenbaum, a famous Zionist, proclaimed that “one cow in Palestine was worth more than all the Jews in Poland.” The infamous David Ben-Gurion said in 1938:
If I knew it was possible to save all the children in Germany by taking them to England, and only half of the children by taking them to Eretz Israel, I would choose the second solution. For we must take into account not only the lives of these children but also the history of the people of Israel.
Read about the brutal Zionist role in the Holocaust.
After the war, a Zionist “religious” leader, Rabbi Klaussner, who was in charge of displaced persons presented a report before the Jewish American Conference on May 2nd, 1948 :
I am convinced people must be forced to go to Palestine...For them, an American dollar appears as the highest of goals. By the word force, I am suggesting a programme. It served for the evacuation of the Jews in Poland, and in the history of the 'Exodus'... To apply this programme we must, instead of providing 'displaced persons' with comfort, create the greatest possible discomfort for them...At a second stage, a procedure calling upon the Haganah to harass the Jews.
It is ironic that the Zionists proclaim their State as the safe haven for the Jewish People, when since World War II no place on earth has been as dangerous for Jews, both spiritually and physically, as the Zionist state.
The Zionists worked relentlessly to create fear among Jews in the Arab countries after the Zionist state was established. Their tactic work most successfully in Yemen, Morocco, Iraq, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia.
It is common knowledge among Iraqi Jews that during 1949-1950 the famous Zionist, Mordechai ben Porat, who had the nickname of Morad Abu al-Knabel (Mordechai Bomber), was instrumental in seeking to bribe Iraqi officials after the creation of the Zionist state to pass laws to encourage Jews to leave Iraq. This was enhanced by the Zionists planting bombs in synagogues in Baghdad in March 1950. Information about this is readily available on the internet.
Read The Jews of Iraq by Naim Giladi, a first hand account of violence and intimidation of Iraqi Jews to leave their homeland.
The writings of Mr. Naim Giladi document in detail what the Zionists did in Baghdad in 1950 to provoke the departure of the Jews to the Zionist state. The Zionists do not care what effect their policies have on the Jewish communities of any country. When they accuse European nations of every sin under the sun, do the Zionists care that this will produce hostility towards Jews? No! Not a bit. On the contrary, as we have discussed, they thrive on such circumstances, clinging to the vain hope that these Jewish communities will rush for the “salvation” of the “safe haven” of the Zionist Paradise where Jews are in constant danger as the Zionist regime undertakes every form of cruel provocation against non-Jews.
Horrifying Accusations of Violence and Intimidation
Read More
In more recent times the Zionists have sought every opportunity to encourage Jews to leave their home countries. Anytime there is even the smallest event of hostility toward Jews on the heels of Zionist policy, or if there are signs of economic distress and dislocation, the Zionists magnify it a thousand times, seek to ruthlessly humiliate the nations involved, and agitate for Jews to go to the Zionist state, the so-called “natural home” of the Jewish People. This has been the case in countries such as France, Argentina, Uruguay, the former Soviet Union and Egypt.
The promises of the Torah are always to be realized. This verse from the Torah demonstrates that those who are his enemies will pay a price when The kingdom of G-D will prevail.
Deuteronomy 32:43: Praise his People, O Nations: For he will avenge the blood of his servants. He will render vengeance against his adversaries and make expiation for his land and his People.
Sources:
- Guardian Volume two Issue 7
- Satmar Grand Rebbe Joel Teitelbaum
- The Jews of Batna, Aleria: A Study of Identity and Colonialism by Elizabeth Friedman.
- The Jewish Communities of Morocco and the AIU by M. Laskier, State University, Albany, N.Y.
- The Impact of Western European Education on the Jewish Millet of Baghdad by Maurice Sawdayee.
- Outcaste Jewish Life in Southern Iran by Laurence D. Loeb. Gordon and Breach.
- The Last Arab Jews. The Communities of Jerba, Tunisia by Abraham Udovitch and Lucette Valensi. Harwood Academic Publishers.
- The GENOCIDE IN THE HOLY LAND (available for purchase on the site)
- Ben Gurion's Scandals by Naeim Giladi (available for purchase on the site)
|
|
|
