Home     Contact Us    
Main Board Job Seeker's Board Job Wanted Board Resume Bank Company Board Word Help Medquist New MTs Classifieds Offshore Concerns VR/Speech Recognition Tech Help Coding/Medical Billing
Gab Board Politics Comedy Stop Health Issues
ADVERTISEMENT




Serving Over 20,000 US Medical Transcriptionists

Army order soldiers to get rid of better body armor or lose death benefits

Posted By: PK on 2006-01-21
In Reply to:

Army Orders Soldiers to Shed Dragon Skin or Lose SGLI Death Benefits

By Nathaniel R. Helms

Two deploying soldiers and a concerned mother reported Friday afternoon that the U.S. Army appears to be singling out soldiers who have purchased Pinnacle's Dragon Skin Body Armor for special treatment. The soldiers, who are currently staging for combat operations from a secret location, reported that their commander told them if they were wearing Pinnacle Dragon Skin and were killed their beneficiaries might not receive the death benefits from their $400,000 SGLI life insurance policies. The soldiers were ordered to leave their privately purchased body armor at home or face the possibility of both losing their life insurance benefit and facing disciplinary action.

The soldiers asked for anonymity because they are concerned they will face retaliation for going public with the Army's apparently new directive. At the sources' requests DefenseWatch has also agreed not to reveal the unit at which the incident occured for operational security reasons.

On Saturday morning a soldier affected by the order reported to DefenseWatch that the directive specified that all commercially available body armor was prohibited. The soldier said the order came down Friday morning from Headquarters, United States Special Operations Command (HQ, USSOCOM), located at MacDill Air Force Base, Florida. It arrived unexpectedly while his unit was preparing to deploy on combat operations. The soldier said the order was deeply disturbiing to many of the men who had used their own money to purchase Dragon Skin because it will affect both their mobility and ballistic protection.

We have to be able to move. It (Dragon Skin) is heavy, but it is made so we have mobility and the best ballistic protection out there. This is crazy. And they are threatening us with our benefits if we don't comply. he said.

The soldier reiterated Friday's reports that any soldier who refused to comply with the order and was subsequently killed in action could be denied the $400,000 death benefit provided by their SGLI life insurance policy as well as face disciplinary action.

As of this report Saturday morning the Army has not yet responded to a DefenseWatch inquiry.

Recently Dragon Skin became an item of contention between proponents of the Interceptor OTV body armor generally issued to all service members deploying in combat theaters and its growing legion of critics. Critics of the Interceptor OTV system say it is ineffective and inferior to Dragon Skin, as well as several other commercially available body armor systems on the market. Last week DefenseWatch released a secret Marine Corps report that determined that 80% of the 401 Marines killed in Iraq between April 2004 and June 2005 might have been saved if the Interceptor OTV body armor they were wearing was more effective. The Army has declined to comment on the report because doing so could aid the enemy, an Army spokesman has repeatedly said.

A U.S. Army spokesman was not available for comment at the time DW's original report (Friday - 1700 CST) was published. DefenseWatch continues to seek a response from the Army and will post one as soon as it becomes available. Yesterday the DoD released a news story through the Armed Forces News Service that quoted Maj. Gen. Steven Speaks, the Army's director of force development, who countered critical media reports by denying that the U.S. military is behind the curve in providing appropriate force protection gear for troops deployed to Iraq and elsewhere in the global war against terrorism. The New York Tiimes and Washington Post led the bandwagon of mainstream media that capitalized on DefenseWatch's release of the Marine Corps study. Both newspapers released the forensic information the Army and Marines are unwilling to discuss.

Those headlines entirely miss the point, Speaks said.

The effort to improve body armor has been a programmatic effort in the case of the Army that has gone on with great intensity for the last five months, he noted.

Speaks' assessment contradicts earlier Army, Marine and DoD statements that indicated as late as last week that the Army was certain there was nothing wrong with Interceptor OTV body armor and that it was and remains the best body armor in the world.

One of the soldiers who lost his coveted Dragon Skin is a veteran operator. He reported that his commander expressed deep regret upon issuing his orders directing him to leave his Dragon Skin body armor behind. The commander reportedly told his subordinates that he had no choice because the orders came from very high up and had to be enforced, the soldier said. Another soldier's story was corroborated by his mother, who helped defray the $6,000 cost of buying the Dragon Skin, she said.

The mother of the soldier, who hails from the Providence, Rhode Island area, said she helped pay for the Dragon Skin as a Christmas present because her son told her it was so much better than the Interceptor OTV they expected to be issued when arriving in country for a combat tour.

He didn't want to use that other stuff, she said. He told me that if anything happened to him I am supposed to raise hell.

At the time the orders were issued the two soldiers had already loaded their Dragon Skin body armor onto the pallets being used to air freight their gear into the operational theater, the soldiers said. They subsequently removed it pursuant to their orders.

Currently nine U.S. generals stationed in Afghanistan are reportedly wearing Pinnacle Dragon Skin body armor, according to company spokesman Paul Chopra. Chopra, a retired Army chief warrant officer and 20+-year pilot in the famed 160th Nightstalkers Special Operations Aviation Regiment (Airborne), said his company was merely told the generals wanted to evaluate the body armor in a combat environment. Chopra said he did not know the names of the general officers wearing the Dragon Skin.

Pinnacle claims more than 3,000 soldiers and civilians stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan are wearing Dragon Skin body armor, Chopra said. Several months ago DefenseWatch began receiving anecdotal reports from individual soldiers that they were being forced to remove all non-issue gear while in theater, including Dragon Skin body armor, boots, and various kinds of non-issue ancillary equipment.

Last year the DoD, under severe pressure from Congress, authorized a one-time $1,000 reimbursement to soldiers who had purchased civilian equipment to supplement either inadequate or unavailable equipment they needed for combat operations. At the time there was no restriction on what the soldiers could buy as long as it was specifically intended to offer personal protection or further their mission capabilities while in theater.



Complete Discussion Below: marks the location of current message within thread

The messages you are viewing are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select the boards given in left menu


Other related messages found in our database

Like body armor?

If you don't think our troops deserve BODY ARMOR

provided by the President who is all too eager to see them die but never had the guts to put is own life on the line for his country, then YOU are the one who doesn't care about our troops.


If I'm a joke, you're a disgrace and a fraud.


Troops die without body armor. Why the delay?





For Lack of Body Armor, Troops Die. Why the Delay?





Paul Rieckhoff on body armor in USA Today: Rieckhoff and other veterans are calling for a congressional investigation. That's justified. Tracking their complaints could save lives in future wars — not to mention this one.

 From USA Today

After Army and Marine Corps generals were summoned Wednesday to a closed-door briefing on Capitol Hill, the brass emerged with vows to improve body armor for all U.S. troops in Iraq.


 That's good to hear, but shouldn't it have happened sooner?


 Members of Congress were reacting to a newly reported analysis by the Armed Forces Medical Examiner, which concluded that 80% of the fatal injuries to Marines in the study might have been prevented by additional armor coverage. Side armor, a special concern, is just beginning to arrive in Iraq.


 The armor situation fits a deadly pattern of blunders by the war's architects. The quick invasion of Iraq happened as planned, but — as former Iraq civilian administrator Paul Bremer acknowledges in his new book — the Bush administration didn't anticipate the widespread and lethal insurgency that followed.


 The occupying U.S. troops soon found themselves facing deadly new tactics with inadequate armor on both their vehicles and themselves. This tragic miscalculation has had tragic consequences.


 To date, 1,510 soldiers and 633 Marines have died in Iraq, many of them killed by rifle shots or explosions in which better armor could have made a difference.


 Army generals say the body armor used by soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan has already been improved seven times. All soldiers there have bullet-proof body vests called Interceptors, which have front-and-back ceramic plates. Side panels, which are added to the Interceptors to provide more coverage, are just now being distributed to Marines.


 Defending their body-armor decisions, Army spokesmen conjure up images of medieval combatants whose ever-heavier personal armor brought their horses to their knees. A soldier wrapped in armor can't fight in the heat of Iraq, they say.


 Maybe not, but the Pentagon owes further explanations to military families and to Congress, which since 2001 has appropriated $302 billion to cover operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some of the questions that need answering include:


 • Was there proper planning? Thousands of troops arrived in Iraq with old-style flak jackets. Not until January 2004 did all troops have the new Interceptor vests, according to a Government Accountability Office report released last year.


 •Was the armor upgraded fast enough? The Marine Corps says it moved quickly to add side armor upon learning the news from the examiner's report. But the Army has yet to supply its soldiers with side protection.


 • Do the services have adequate supply systems? Those systems appear hobbled by slow turnarounds and poor reliability. In November, more than 18,000 vests were recalled for failing to meet ballistics tests.


 Army and Marine commanders know that no battle plan survives the first contact with the enemy. The question is how quickly the services adapt. The answer in Iraq is tooslowly, says Paul Rieckhoff, who led an Army platoon there protected only by the flak jackets, which can't stop an AK-47 round.


 The body armor delays mirror problems with the Humvee. Not until last July did the Army finally replace its soft-skinned Humvees, proven tragically vulnerable to roadside bombs, with a fully armored version.


 Rieckhoff and other veterans are calling for a congressional investigation. That's justified. Tracking their complaints could save lives in future wars — not to mention this one.



A lot of death & destruction over 2 kidnapped (captured) soldiers isn't it?nm
z
Yes, it makes me feel better, my body is my body
and nobody can tell me what to do with my body or what is in my body till the 120th day!
And to 'sm' or 'm' or whatever she calls herself on this board, I wish the same she wished to 'abc' in her nasty reply 11/16/08.

And I have become VERY thick skinned
I do agree. It was a lose/lose situation for him either way.
Very sad.
So if he knows your soul before you have a body, and the body he planned for that soul is killed (sm
Does he just give the same soul to a different body? Just curious how your beliefs work.
the death of Wall Street is the death of the USA...you really want that????? nm

benefits for illegals...
Alright which party is for doing something about the illegals that are crossing our border and not just to work but to take advantage of goverment benefits.  More specific which person who is running?  Has this been mentioned by any of them?  Let me enlighten everyone on some things.  Let everyone see just how messed up this country is becoming.  I live near an illegal immigrant who has found out she is pregnant.  Well she went to the office where you apply for Medicaid to pay for the baby and they told her unless she could prove she was a US citizen no help.  Well that is the way it should be.  She goes to Georgia.  They say same thing.  She has now gone to Louisiana, which is not the state where she even lives either.  They are going to give her benefits.  They don't even check.  What is the deal?  She is illegal, has a job that she said wanted proof she could work in the US legally.  She got around that somehow.  I don't know how.  She pays no taxes here.  But yet she can get Medicaid?  What the heck is going on here?  She doesn't even live in Louisiana.  She gave them someone elses address.  How can the country let this continue? 
Does this mean it's OK for us all to apply for benefits now?
nm
Don't think the benefits are limited to
More democratic debate and result-oriented compromise should lead both factions toward centrist positions and policies, which would be more representative of the WHOLE of the nation and would have the effect of crowding out special interests. Sounds less corrupt, more equal, and patently progressive toward a real change in the way Washington politics works. Should prove to be very interesting.
One of the biggest benefits of my job is
that I don't have far to drive to get to work!
So lying is okay when it benefits your side

Okay.  I see the picture developing.   It was okay that Clinton lied, but just because you think Bush lied he should be impeached post haste.  Just want to be sure I'm reading you right here.


If SS benefits were monetarily commisserate with
What was paid in, there really would not be much point in drawing them. For example, if I paid in $50 a month and my employer contributed another $75, should I only be able to draw about $125 a month? That amount wouldn't keep the lights on, let alone provide for other necessities of life like food and healthcare (yes, the elderly do have to pay for Medicare B and D) and clothing.

I agree that the SS is in a mess and getting worse all the time, but I don't think that axing the elderly's monthly check is the way to fix it. How about we infuse the SS fund with some of that stimulus money instead of studying why pigs smell?
The amount of $$ paid out in benefits to smokers
the amount of tax revenue generated by the sale of tobacco. You don't seem to protest too loudly when it comes time to spend it and waste no time marginalizing and bashing people with an addiction. These are tired tactics designed to take the focus off of the REAL issues raised in this thread with regard to the economy and differences between party platforms, policies and plans. Just how long do ou think pubs can run and hide from the fact that what they have to offer is EXACTLY the same thing as what we all are running fast and far away from? Careful, your desperation is showing.
Benefits for Govt worker's gay partners

Don't mean to start anything with the article, but thought some would find it interesting.


WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Barack Obama, whose gay and lesbian supporters have grown frustrated with his slow movement on their priorities, is extending benefits to same-sex partners of federal employees, a White House official said.


Obama planned to announce his decision Wednesday in the Oval Office, the official said. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because Obama had not signed a presidential memorandum putting his plan into place.


The decision is a political nod to a reliably Democratic voting bloc that has become impatient with the White House in recent weeks.


Several powerful gay fundraisers withdrew their support from a Democratic National Committee event June 25 where Vice President Joe Biden is expected to speak. Their exit came in response to a Justice Department brief last week that defended the Defense of Marriage Act, a prime target for gay and lesbian criticism.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA_GAY_BENEFITS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2009-06-17-08-13-41


You and what army?
.
heck I wouldn't mind giving illegals benefits if I could
and i'm nervous about my 3 month waiting period at my new job for health insurance!
You speak to an Army mom this way. Says a lot about you. nm

How is Army Mom sacrificing her son?
Do you really think people are that stupid?  Just like Casey Sheehan ENLISTED.  Army Mom's child ENLISTED too.   You feel the way you feel, but DON'T YOU DARE try to tell us how to feel.  DON'T YOU DARE tell a mother she's sacrificing her son or daughter.  Parent's don't hold that power.  It is completely up to the child  You don't hold the corner on how we should all feel and you will not preach to me and tell me how I should feel.
Army mom, you don't speak for all.
You have a right to voice your opinion and support whom you will. You do not have any more right than the next person to speak for all the troops. At the very moment you having your how DARE you moment, you yourself are attempting to speak for all of them. I know for a fact you are wrong in doing this because I read military message boards frequently and there is no one view represented on them. In fact the majority at this time are anti-Bush and anti-Iraq war. If you don't believe me go and read them yourself.

Isn't it time you stopped lecturing others for wanting to bring the military home from a mission they can't possibly win by any measure of the word and put your outrage to work where it will actually save lives? They can't win. I'm sorry. They could fight until 2020 and all they will do is die. They are not accomplishing anything. It is not their fault! It was the mission itself that was a losing proposition from the start and for that they can't be blamed, they are just doing their jobs as they were trained to do and for that we admire them. But they can't win. There is nothing TO win. There isn't any shame in that. We have bad leaders who did no planning, a bunch of war-avoiding chickenhawks. They are the ones you should be outraged against.

And don't hiss at me - I'm a veteran myself and I know a military snow-job when I see one. As our military deaths double, so does Halliburton stock. Our leaders and their rich friends have no reason to stop the killing and they have every reason to continue it. Our sons and daughters are the pawns in their money-making schemes and don't you think they know it? Most of them do. That doesn't stop them from performing their missions and it doesn't make them cowards simply because they see the game plan for what it is. They CAN'T protest the war. They are not in a position to do so. They rely on us to do it for them. Only we can bring them out of the hell hole. Our leaders are not going to do it unless we demand they do it in a unified voice they can't ignore. Demanding that the troops stay IN Iraq for an undefined mission without end in a war against a vague principle while war profiteers grow rich on their blood doesn't make any sense. THAT is what Cindy Sheehan is saying- not that America isn't worth fighting for like Sean Hannity loves to vomit every other sentence to the gullible and Viet Nam-shellshocked.

THE MISSION IS UNWINNABLE. It's the mission that is not worthwhile, not the troops themselves. Why waste more lives for no purpose? Sunnis want to kill Shiites and you care - why? They have been at it for 700 years or so. We won't change that whether we leave today or five years from now. Wake up. Look at it realistically. Every day we remain Cheney's friends get richer and more mothers lose their loved ones. Come on. Why do you support that? Why would you support the agenda of chickenhawk cowards with all its stinking profiteering undertones more than you support your family member's chance to live life? And why are you angry at those who want to save your son or daughter's life, at those who feel his chance at life is far more important than any contractor's bottom line or egotistical leader's plan to strut on a stage of war glory? Because that really makes no sense. I'm a mother too. I know you want your soldier home safe in one piece regardless of his political views. So why do you fight so hard against those who want exactly the same thing?

They are doing that at the Salvation Army
too. Firing people if they arent religious enough or if they wont rat on other employees who dont go to church enough etc. If we dont put a stop to this type of stuff soon, the republicans are going to take all the fun out of living. No dancing, no music, no love, no life, just hate disguised under the flag and religion. Its scary your right.
I was a leader in the Army
Serving in the Army, I know what it is like to be a leader. It not something you learn overnight and doesn't come automatically. It takes years to become a good leader and your actions determine whether or not you are one. A leader exhibits certain qualities (confidence, self-discipline, and intelligence to name a couple). To be a good leader you must listen to many. Communicate with your peers for advice to make the best informed decision. You need to back your people up. You need to stick by them and stick up for them. You need to treat them with respect. You need to be the first to put your foot down on enemy territory and the last to take your foot off. You need to have a vision and see the big picture. You need to communicate effectively and find common ground to work together. You need to be able to motivate and inspire, and most importantly hold yourself to the highest of standards. And you never ever quit. Quitting is not an option. I could probably go on at length about being a leader.

The post above has nothing to do with being a leader. Putting off a debate in the times that we are going through so that you can go back to Washington to do your job and help to fix the problem is the responsible thing to do, which goes to show again that Sen. John McCain is a truly responsible leader. He is putting the American people before his own self interest. This crisis must be resolved before anything further can go on. How do you expect to tackle any of the other issues if we can't even get our own country back on track.

Sen John McCain is a true leader. He is telling us it should not fall upon us to bail out the execs while they walk away with millions, and he is the first to put his campaigning on hold to do this. This is the same courage he showed when he was in a POW camp and would not leave before the other soldiers in the camp. Sen. McCain stands up for what is right and will not quit until a solution has been set. He and Gov. Sarah Palin have proven they are not afraid to go against the "good ol boys", while Sen Obama goes along with the good ol boys. If Sen Obama would let the people know that the money he received as a kickback from FMFM he would be paying back would give me a little more confidence that he does care about the people, but Obama, Dodd, Kerry and others (and yes some republicans) are not about to hand back any of the money.

Sen Obama is a smooth talker and that is about all. He tells you what you want to hear but he does not follow through. He is just one more politician giving us a line of hooey thinking he has us fooled (obvious he does have some fooled) but luckily others see through him.

Also, not sure what TV station you watched but Sen McCain did not put off the convention. It went on just as it planned to exactly the dates it was supposed to. Just like the Democratic convention.
Join the Army and BYOB

(In this case, the *B* stands for body armor.)


From: http://www.optruth.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=258&Itemid=66







Body Armor Reimbursement | Print |




OEF/OIF Vets: Did you buy your own body armor, helmet, or other protective gear?  The Pentagon has finally agreed to reimburse you.  Read this article, and get paid back.

October 5, 2005: Once again, Operation Truth’s Online Army helped ensure that those who are risking their lives for this nation get the support they need. After receiving over 5,000 messages from Operation Truth members, the Senate approved an amendment offered by Senator Christopher Dodd, ordering the Secretary of Defense to follow the law and reimburse Troops who were forced to buy their own protective equipment for use in the war in Iraq.


Feeling the pressure from the Senate move, the Department of Defense immediately announced that it will end its stalling and pay Troops back, starting immediately.


OEF/OIF Troops: Here’s what you need to know to get paid back.


Requirements:


1) The equipment must be on a list of critical safety or health equipment that was in short supply. This list includes combat helmets, ballistic eye protection, hydration systems, and tactical vests, including body armor and body armor inserts.  Other equipment, like scopes, are likely to be added soon.


2) With receipts, you’ll be reimbursed for an item’s actual purchase price and shipping cost(up to $1,100 per item). If you don’t have receipts, you will be reimbursed a standard estimated cost for each item.  Here's a partial list of estimated costs:


reimburse.jpg 


3) All reimbursed items become property of the U.S. government and must be turned in to the unit logistics officer, unless they were destroyed in combat or are otherwise no longer available for good reason.


Here’s what you have to do:


Submit Department of Defense Form 2902, Claim for Reimbursement for Privately Purchased Protective, Safety or Health Equipment used in Combat form to your chain of command. If you’ve separated from the service, you can submit this form to an authorizing official designated by their former service at an address on the form.

All claims must be submitted by Oct. 3, 2006.


Army is now recruiting the disabled.






');
//-->





This speaks volumes and is one of the saddest and most disgusting things I've read in a long time about the administration of compassionate conservatism.   


http://www.oregonlive.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/news/1146882329307730.xml&coll=7







');
//-->










An Army of one wrong recruit


Autism - The signing of a disabled Portland man despite warnings reflects problems nationally for military enlistment

Sunday, May 07, 2006
MICHELLE ROBERTS
The Oregonian

Jared Guinther is 18. Tall and lanky, he will graduate from Marshall High School in June. Girls think he's cute, until they try to talk to him and he stammers or just stands there -- silent.


Diagnosed with autism at age 3, Jared is polite but won't talk to people unless they address him first. It's hard for him to make friends. He lives in his own private world.


Jared didn't know there was a war raging in Iraq until his parents told him last fall -- shortly after a military recruiter stopped him outside a Southeast Portland strip mall and complimented him on his black Converse All Stars.


When Jared first started talking about joining the Army, I thought, 'Well, that isn't going to happen,' said Paul Guinther, Jared's father. I told my wife not to worry about it. They're not going to take anybody in the service who's autistic.


But they did. Last month, Jared came home with papers showing that he not only had enlisted, but also had signed up for the Army's most dangerous job: cavalry scout. He is scheduled to leave for basic training Aug. 16.


Officials are now investigating whether recruiters at the U.S. Army Recruiting Station in Southeast Portland improperly concealed Jared's disability, which should have made him ineligible for service.


Jared's story illustrates a growing national problem as the military faces increasing pressure to hit recruiting targets during an unpopular war.


Tracking by the Pentagon shows that complaints about recruiting improprieties are on pace to approach record highs set in 2003 and 2004. The active Army and the Reserve missed recruiting targets last year, and reports of recruiting abuses continue from across the country.


A family in Ohio reported that its mentally ill son was signed up, despite rules banning such enlistments and the fact that records about his illness were readily available.


In Houston, a recruiter warned a potential enlistee that if he backed out of a meeting he would be arrested.


And in Colorado, a high school student working undercover told recruiters he had dropped out and had a drug problem. The recruiter told the boy to fake a diploma and buy a product to help him beat a drug test.


Violations such as these forced the Army to halt recruiting for a day last May so recruiters could be retrained and reminded of the job's ethical requirements.


The Portland Army Recruiting Battalion Headquarters opened its investigation into Jared's case last week after his parents called The Oregonian and the newspaper began asking questions about his enlistment.


Maj. Curt Steinagel, commander of the Military Entrance Processing Station in Portland, said the papers filled out by Jared's recruiters contained no indication of his disability. Steinagel acknowledged that the current climate is tough on recruiters here and elsewhere.


I can't speak for the Army, he said, but it's no secret that recruiters stretch and bend the rules because of all the pressure they're under. The problem exists, and we all know it exists.


Diagnosis and struggle


Jared lives in a tiny brown house in Southeast Portland that looks as worn out as his parents do when they get home from work.


Paul Guinther, 57, labors 50 to 60 hour weeks as a painter-sandblaster at Sundial Marine Tug & Barge Works in Troutdale. His wife, Brenda, 50, has the graveyard housekeeping shift at Kaiser Permanente Sunnyside Medical Center in Clackamas.


The couple got together nearly 16 years ago when Jared was 3. Brenda, who had two young children of her own, immediately noticed that Jared was different and pushed Paul to have the boy tested.


Jared would play with buttons for hours on end, she said. He'd play with one toy for days. Loud noises bothered him. He was scared to death of the toilet flushing, the lawn mower.


Jared didn't speak until he was almost 4 and could not tolerate the feel of grass on his feet.


Doctors diagnosed him with moderate to severe autism, a developmental disorder that strikes when children are toddlers. It causes problems with social interaction, language and intelligence. No one knows its cause or cure.


School and medical records show that Jared, whose recent verbal IQ tested very low, spent years in special education classes. It was only when he was a high school senior that Brenda pushed for Jared to take regular classes because she wanted him to get a normal rather than a modified diploma.


Jared required extensive tutoring and accommodations to pass, but in June he will graduate alongside his younger stepbrother, Matthew Thorsen.


Last fall, Jared began talking about joining the military after a recruiter stopped him on his way home from school and offered a $4,000 signing bonus, $67,000 for college and more buddies than he could count.


Matthew told his mother that military recruiting at the school and surrounding neighborhoods was so intense that one recruiter had pulled him out of football practice.


Recruiters in Portland and nationwide spend several hours a day cold-calling high school students, whose phone numbers are provided by schools under the No Child Left Behind Law. They also prospect at malls, high school cafeterias, colleges and wherever else young people gather.


Brenda phoned her two brothers, both veterans. She said they laughed and told her not to worry. The military would never take Jared.


The Guinthers, meanwhile, tried to refocus their son.


I told him, 'Jared, you get out of high school. I know you don't want to be a janitor all your life. You work this job, you go to community college, you find out what you want. You can live here as long as you want,' Paul said.


They thought it had worked until five weeks ago. Brenda said she called Jared on his cell phone to check what time he'd be home.


I said 'Jared, what are you doing?' 'I'm taking the test,' he said -- the entrance test. I go, 'Wait a minute.' I said, 'Who's giving you the test?' He said, 'Corporal.' I said, 'Well let me talk to him.'


Brenda said she spoke to Cpl. Ronan Ansley and explained that Jared had a disability, autism, that could not be outgrown. She said Ansley told her he had been in special classes, too -- for dyslexia.


I said, 'Wait a minute, there's a big difference between autism and your problem,' Brenda said.


Military rules prohibit enlisting anyone with a mental disorder that interferes with school or employment, unless a recruit can show he or she hasn't required special academic or job accommodations for 12 months.


Jared has been in special education classes since preschool. Through a special program for disabled workers, he has a part-time job scrubbing toilets and dumping trash.


Jared scored 43 out of 99 on the Army's basic entrance exam -- 31 is the lowest grade the Army allows for enlistment, military officials said.


After learning that Jared had cleared this first hurdle toward enlistment, Brenda said, she called and asked for Ansley's supervisor and got Sgt. Alejandro Velasco.


She said she begged Velasco to review Jared's medical and school records. Brenda said Velasco declined, asserting that he didn't need any paperwork. Under military rules, recruiters are required to gather all available information about a recruit and fill out a medical screening form.


He was real cocky and he says, 'Well, Jared's an 18-year-old man. He doesn't need his mommy to make his decisions for him.'


Question of comprehension


The Guinthers are not political activists. They supported the Iraq war in the beginning but have started to question it as fighting dragged on. Brenda Guinther said that if her son Matthew had enlisted, she wouldn't like it, but I would learn to live with it because I know he would understand the consequences.


But Jared doesn't understand the dangers or the details of what he has done, the Guinthers said.


When they asked Jared how long he would be in the Army, he said he didn't know. His enlistment papers show it's just over four years. Jared also was disappointed to learn that he wouldn't be paid the $4,000 signing bonus until after basic training.


During a recent family gathering, a relative asked Jared what he would do if an enemy was shooting at him. Jared ran to his video game console and killed a digital Xbox soldier and announced, See! I can do it!


My concern is that if he got into a combat situation he really couldn't take someone's back, said Mary Lou Perry, 51, a longtime friend of the Guinthers'. He wouldn't really know a dangerous thing. This job they have him doing, it's like send him in and if he doesn't get blown up, it's safe for the rest of us.


Steinagel, the processing station commander, told The Oregonian that Jared showed up after passing his written exam. None of his paperwork indicated that he was autistic, but if it had, Jared almost certainly would have been disqualified, he said.


On Tuesday, a reporter visited the U.S. Army Recruiting Station at the Eastport Plaza Shopping Center, where Velasco said he had not been told about Jared's autism.


Cpl. Ansley is Guinther's recruiter, he said. I was unaware of any type of autism or anything like that.


Velasco initially denied knowing Jared but later said he'd spent a lot of time mentoring him because Jared was going to become a cavalry scout. The job entails engaging the enemy with anti-armor weapons and scout vehicles, according to an Army recruiting Web site.


After he had spoken for a few moments, Velasco suddenly grabbed the reporter's tape recorder and tried to tear out the tape, stopping only after the reporter threatened to call the police.


With the Guinthers' permission, The Oregonian faxed Jared's medical records to the U.S. Army Recruiting Battalion commander, Lt. Col. David Carlton in Portland, who on Wednesday ordered the investigation.


The Guinthers said that on Tuesday evening, Cpl. Ansley showed up at their door. They said Ansley stated that he would probably lose his job and face dishonorable discharge unless they could stop the newspaper's story.


Ansley, reached at his recruiting office Thursday, declined to comment for this story.


S. Douglas Smith, spokesman for the U.S. Army Recruiting Command, in Fort Knox, Ky., said he could not comment on specifics of the investigation in Portland. But he defended the 8,200 recruiters working for the active Army and Army Reserve.


Last year, the Army relieved 44 recruiters from duty and admonished 369.


Everyone in recruiting is let down when one of our recruiters fails to uphold the Army's and Recruiting Command's standards, Smith said.


The Guinthers are eager to hear whether the Army will release Jared from his enlistment. Jared is disappointed he might not go because he thought the recruiters were his friends, they said. But they're willing to accept that.


If he went to Iraq and got hurt or killed, Paul Guinther said, I couldn't live with myself knowing I didn't try to stop it.


©2006 The Oregonian


 


The sicko who shot the army soldier

and murdered him justifies himself by saying it was not a murder; it was a justified killing.......    Our liberal media has been so hush hush about the murder of this solider, maybe they think they same thing!!  They sure have talked about the baby murderer's murder til I'm sick to death of hearing it!!! 


Too bad Obama thought discussing the tiller murder was more important than mentioning a soldier's murder in THIS country due to a sicko islamic convert within our own country....  speaks volumes to me...


The sicko who shot the army soldier

and murdered him justifies himself by saying it was not a murder; it was a justified killing.......    Our liberal media has been so hush hush about the murder of this solider, maybe they think they same thing!!  They sure have talked about the baby murderer's murder til I'm sick to death of hearing it!!! 


Too bad Obama thought discussing the tiller murder was more important than mentioning a soldier's murder in THIS country due to a sicko islamic convert within our own country....  speaks volumes to me...


What about it? It ain't his body.
You think I'd carry a child for 9 months, give birth and then hand it over to the father - NOT! 
It's MY body, and always will be - before,
Go screw with your OWN body.
oops - wherever I say Army I mean all branches of the military service
Not just the Army. The Marines, Air Force, Navy, everyone is included. Just wanted to clarify that.
You fail to note that the Army Corp of Engineers....
is a federal entity and it was THEIR job to fix the levies, too bad W cut all the funding so he could play Monopoly in Iraq.
Body by Fisher?
Lawyers Spar Over Role of Religion in 'Intelligent Design' As Pa. Court Battle Over School Policy Opens
There's only so much ignorance that a body can take
nm
Nope. NOTHING I have, in or out of my body,
YOUR 'god' is not necessarily MY God. My God does not happen to be a judgemental control-freak like your 'god' is.
U.S. Army Intelligence Analyst Accused of Disloyaty for Doubts...

Thousands are rallying behind this guy as the story makes its way around the web.  The story is just below the picture. 


http://www.williambowles.info/gispecial/2006/0806/280806/gi_4h28_280806.html


 


No, I am not confusing the body with an 844-ft mountain top...
What I am referring to are the many cases where schools will have rules that ban crosses or any form of Christian expression, but allow Muslims/Sikhs to wear headscarves. The ACLU by and large will not take those cases even if asked. If situation reversed, they will sue on behalf of Muslims/sikhs without being asked.

Again...the first ammendment guarantees freedom of religion and the free expression thereof. The last 4 words mean as much as the first words.

The first ammendment prohibits the establishment of a state religion...like the church of England that required everyone to follow that religion. There is nothing in the constitution that uses the words separation of church and state. The founding fathers did not seperate Christianity from the government...it is interwoven in the founding documents, on our currency, on the walls of Congress. It is part of the American heritage. From the drive to come here for religious freedom came the drive to set out the other individual freedoms.

As I said, if people find sharing the gospel annoying a simple I am not interested works with most Christians. There is always a radical fringe associated with any religion...some more than others. There is a radical political fringe.

All I am saying is that Christians are discriminated against in this country. And the same people who will rise up and decry discrimination against Muslims, et al, will not rise up and decry the same discrimination against Christians. I would think civil liberties apply to ALL of us....

I said nothing about putting a cross on public ground...don't know why you went off on that tangent. :)
It's not for you to decide what a woman does with her body
Mind your own business. Keep your own legs closed when the rapist approaches.
If you're so worried about your body........
and you think so much of YOUR bodyl, at what point do you think about the body of an unborn child? Shouldn't you be worried about YOUR body before you get pregnant?

What about the freedom and rights of a living being that just happens to be carried in a womb? If you don't want a baby, then how about NOT getting pregnant in the first place? And please don't give me the garbage about "it happens", blah, blah, blah.....there's always a way to make sure it doesn't happen.
So a FREE society cuts billions from the army corp of engineers....
so, literally, whole cities drown but we can spend trillions on a war based on lies and support corporations like Halliburton. Sure, why not. It has worked very, very well.
While a fetus remains a part of MY body, is sure
And it will never be yours, or anyone else's.


I just get tired of hearing "It's my body, I can
do what I want to with it."  I had a second child totally unplanned for and totally not expected (my first only being 7 months old when I got pregnant), but the thought of abortion never crossed my mind.  That baby was a human being, not just a fetus to me.  That child is now 26 years old and expecting her first child.  She has brought so much joy into my life that I can't even bear to think what it would be without her.  Had I chosen to abort her, I would have missed one of the greatest blessings I had ever been given.  It wasn't just my body that was involved.  The only choice I made was taking the risk for an unwanted pregnancy.  If I didn't want to be pregnant, I probably should have been more careful.  Now, I'm so happy that I wasn't very careful.  She is a beautiful young woman that I treasure dearly.
Well, I read the stench of body odor on the mall
was almost unbearable in places. Believe me, I live in a town where we have those persons who refused to bathe (don't know how bathing hurts the environment, but they think it does), and they are lovingly referred to as the great unwashed.  The radiology clinic where I worked at began to refuse to take them unless they washed...anyway these are always the ones who show up at the anti-Bush, anti-war rallies in our area.
So SP wrapping the flag around her body for a political photo op
x
What about feeling the baby move inside your body? sm
So the baby I felt moving in my tummy at 20 weeks gestation wasn't alive?
Say it ain't so....Family Upset Over Soldier's Body Arriving As Freight..sm

I hope this family is able to effect a change in this. This would be something worth quitting your job and marching for change.  I'm heartbroken reading of the audacity of the military to ship a fallen soldier as freight.  This has to be a mistake. Pinch me I'm dreaming...Democrat. 


 


Family Upset Over Soldier's Body Arriving As Freight


Bodies Sent To Families On Commercial Airliners



POSTED: 4:46 pm PST December 9, 2005

UPDATED: 10:19 am PST December 12, 2005








There's controversy over how the military is transporting the bodies of service members killed overseas, 10News reported.

A local family said fallen soldiers and Marines deserve better and that one would think our war heroes are being transported with dignity, care and respect. It said one would think upon arrival in their hometowns they are greeted with honor. But unfortunately, the family said that is just not the case.

Dead heroes are supposed to come home with their coffins draped with the American flag -- greeted by a color guard.

But in reality, many are arriving as freight on commercial airliners -- stuffed in the belly of a plane with suitcases and other cargo.















John Holley and his wife, Stacey, were stunned when they found out the body of their only child, Matthew John Holley, who died in Iraq last month, would be arriving at Lindbergh Field as freight.

Matthew was a medic with the 101st Airborne unit and died on Nov. 15.

When someone dies in combat, they need to give them due respect they deserve for (the) sacrifice they made, said John Holley.

John and Stacey Holley, who were both in the Army, made some calls, and with the help of U.S. Sen. Barbara Boxer, Matthew was greeted with honor and respect.

Our familiarity with military protocol and things of that sort allowed us to kind of put our foot down -- we're not sure other parents have that same knowledge, said Stacey Holley.

The Holleys now want to make sure every fallen hero gets the proper welcome.

The bodies of dead service members arrive at Dover Air Force Base.

From that point, they are sent to their families on commercial airliners.

Reporters from 10News called the Defense Department for an explanation. A representative said she did not know why this is happening.



I am not willing to lose what

I've earned through my hard work to give to some lazy bum who would rather mooch than work for a living.  I'm not willing to lose my freedom.  To me....it seems like government wants to take control over more things and when will it end. 


I do not support our president because I do not believe his goals and agenda will help anyone who really needs the help.  It will continue to enable moochers to keep on mooching.  It will hurt charities by taxing the rich.....who, BTW, are the biggest donators to charities.  It will hurt businesses by taxing them more and in turn they will cut back and lay off workers, not hire more employees.  Cap and trade will hurt everyone as gas prices will sore, utility costs will sky rocket, and the price for all goods and services will go up.  That doesn't help people who have to decide which is more imporant....gas to get to work or food to put on the table. 


To stand by and let these things happen because we support our country and just have to see how things come together......to me that is just ignorant.  That is how we ended up in this situation in the first place.  We supported our country and put our trust in government (dems and pubs alike) and we ended up getting it stuck to us. 


The U.S. didn't lose.
We weren't allowed to win. 
How many did you lose on Sept 11?
Probably none. I did. I still can hardly believe that they country I live in, have ALWAYS felt safe in and never, EVER thought anything like that would happen in...did. Don't you get it? It did. I for one do not ever, EVER want it to happen again. I'd give every dime I have and every dime I'll ever make to have those back that I lost.
Yes, investors have a lot to lose....
and investors are not just "the rich." Many companies' 401Ks for their employees are in the stock market. People should be VERY careful about what they think they want...the effects could be disastrous for an already weak economy.
here are a few if my candidates lose -
1. Get up Wed. AM, after election, turn on TV. See my faves didn't win. My reaction: 'Oh, cr@p!'

2. my actions: Eat cereal and drink coffee.

3. Where to go from thERE?
BACK TO BED!

4. What will I flee? My low-paying MT job, which most likely will never get any better.
Don't lose sleep over it
Win or lose, we'll be rebuilding the Republican party.  That means purging the RINOs, too.  That's more than can be said for the Dems.