Anyone who thinks that socialized medicine is a good idea
Posted By: Kendra on 2008-10-28
In Reply to: I wouldn't know. - Marmann
should try out military medicine for awhile and see how it goes!
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And as to socialized medicine leading to a socialized country....
it has to start somewhere, piglet. It has already started in this country with all the entitlements. Adding health care is one more nail in the proverbial coffin. And as you seek to move entitlements further and further up the income ladder, you create a wider disparity and destroy the middle class. That is how it starts. That is how it started everywhere. A good idea gone bad, just like so many others. The more power you place in one area, and the more choice you take away from the "people" the closer you get. It looks good to start. Then pretty soon the government starts to control businesses, so that eventually everyone "works for the government." When people begin to wake up and realize what is going on...and start to protest it or try to bring it into the light...then the government starts to control media (aka Chavez shutting down a TV station). It is not a leap. It is a slow, malicious process. Socialist Germany started out that way. Germans thought it was great, and it was, until Hitler rose to power. Then it was too late. When you concentrate too much power over the everyday lives of the people and make them dependent upon the state for the necessities...we are already headed that way with people dependent for income, and now you want them to be depenent for health care as well. What's next, Piglet? You tell me.
I have lived to see enough "that would never happens" that DID happen to know. And if you will read history, you will see that what I have said is borne out. In a person's desire to have everything provided for them, every time that happens, control is relinquished to the government. That is where it starts.
Nobody is saying socialized medicine
they are saying set up an insurance program that we would still have to pay for!
Obama is not going for socialized medicine -
Obama's plan just involves making sure affordable insurance is available for everyone. He is not mandating that you all use government hospitals or government sponsored clinics. He is saying that he wants insurance for every person in America.
Under the socialized medicine system........sm
which is basically what Obama is pushing for, you might get some health care, but I sure hope you don't need a hip replacement or other specialized care. Just ask our neighbors to the north how long they have to wait for a hip replacement.
Brian Day, former president of the Canadian Medical Association, remarked that Canada "is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two to three years."
Medicines will be rationed and forget about getting treatment for pesky things like cancer if you are over a certain age or have other comorbid conditions.
Even Al Gore thinks caps and trade is a bad idea!!!
xx
Good idea.
x
Not a good idea!
I don't mean to sound snappy toward fellow progressives by any means, but what is the point of having a political discussion board if you don't want to discuss opposing views? Politics is a very confrontational subject, seems like - do you really just want to talk to people who agree with you? How do you learn to handle unpleasant people in real life if you don't want to talk to them online? These are sincere questions, I just would like to know what you think about them.
I admit I like a good verbal tussle and no doubt that colors my view, but that's just me:) If they set up a bashing board I'd be the first one over and there's no sense denying that. But what *do* you guys who want a separate board get out of a political discussion when there's no one challenging your views?
Good idea, but...
raise taxes on the insurance companies, and they have to pass that on to someone...in higher rates. Big ugly nasty vicious circle. They need to make healthcare a free market place. Make insurance companies complete like any other business. Make health care providers complete like every other business. But then health care workers would feel the pinch because health care providers would have to cut costs. Frankly, I don't see a really good answer, other than looking at social programs as a whole, and taking money from goofy stuff like studying how much gas is released in the atmosphere when a cow belches or billions to save some kind of bird in a swamp...that kind of thing should take second chair to insuring kids in my book. I am not against insuring kids...but if you are going to insure kids, you should insure ALL kids. Otherwise, how do you decide who gets insured and who doesn't? If you are going to have the government insure kids and monitor that, then ALL kids should be insured by the government to make sure ALL kids are treated the same by health care providers...rich kids and poor kids alike. Because some higher middle income families kids are not insured because their parents chose NOT to insure them so they can spend that money elsewhere. That is documented. I know people personally who are healthy and their kids are healthy and they don't want to pay the premiums, and they know if something catastrophic happens legally they cannot be denied health care and can pay it out at 50 bucks a month. I don't like that attitude, but that attitude is out there. The whole thing is so skewed. I am not sure there is a good answer. All I know is, they cannot keep taxing, taxing, taxing Americans to death to pay for programs...or sooner than later ALL Americans will need to be on programs and who is going to pay for it then? Sigh.
good idea
I should probably do that for ALL the candidates including the Republicans. It's hard though to find a non-partisan website to wade through all the slanted rhetoric.
good idea :) nm
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Might be a good idea s/m
to go to snopes.com and search for Alaskan Anti-Palin Rally and go all the way to the bottom and listen to the radio personality. Then talk about bias. No question of truth when the TV anchor is shown playing the video of the radio commentator.
VOTING FOR LOU DOBBS!!!!
Good idea!!! s/m
First I would not waste time spinning around in the chair. We've seen too much of that already.
1. I agree. I would pre-schedule the meeting to take place immediately after the inauguration and I would have the meeting without pre-conditions. I would let it be known that whether my party affiliation was Democrat or Republican, we WOULD put partisanship aside and work for the good of the PEOPLE who elected (or hired us) for the job. I would let it be known that I would address the NATION and keep them informed of progress and that I WOULD name names.
2. I would request (and EXPECT it to be done) a copy of the budget be on my desk with copies for all the members of Congress and we would use it as as an agenda at the above friendly meeting. I would present myself as the leader for the PEOPLE. No, I have not seen the movie Dave.
3. Whoa! It isn't just MTs who are hurting, don't forget Joe the Plumber. I would not TRY to stop jobs from going out of the country. I would do it. I would hammer away until I got a bill passed that would penalize companies big time who send jobs out of the country and use that money to balance the budget. If Congress could not do this, I would take it to the PEOPLE and name names.
Praise God we're seeing a few people post who actually have ideas! With this as a starting point, we might just possibly start a movement for REAL CHANGE.
Good idea!! nm
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Thanks aw, good idea nm
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that seems like a good idea to me -
how many times have we typed reports where the physician is waiting on reports from another hospital and cannot render the proper care because he does not know the background and the medical records department is closed?
I think that having a database somewhere that everyone can access is good. Now, I don't want the government telling my doctor what he can and cannot do for me.
LOL....oh no...a dem with a good idea.
I don't believe it. LMAO! I'm all for putting up a fence on the border. I've watched those TV shows about gangs and I keep hearing about this MS 13 and frankly.....it scares the sh!t out of me about as much as Bin Laden does. Seriously.......
So you think in the middle of a war, this is a good idea? sm
This perfectly illustrates that your hatred for Bush exceeds any care for the safety of Americans.
Your second idea sounds good....... sm
but it may be a moot point. The legislation is struggling in the Senate and W himself is lobbying for Senate to pass a bailout. Looks like the automakers may go home empty handed.
I'm not in favor of the bailout, but neither am I in favor of more people losing their jobs if it could be prevented, so I don't know what the best solution is. Over the past couple of days, Sony, Office Depot, and a mining company (name escapes me at the moment) have all laid off thousands of workers. I'm just wondering where it all will end.
actually, I think a good idea for both sides...
after they pick the candidates, let them post their platform and what they are going to do, let us do our research and decide that way, without ads and gotcha politics...and put the millions to the national debt instead of campaigning. I vote YES on that one. :-)
Good idea. I second that suggestion.
Thanks.
sounds like a good idea to me!
I can remember when insurance companies did that before and they were not going out of business. So you think because my child is born with a medical problem, she should not get health insurance?
Self-Censorship. Good Idea.
Yes, great plan, lefty.
From now on, only listen to things that are in total agreement with your particular leftist bent.
That should prove helpful.
And I, for my part, will ONLY listent to the weather report when it calls for sunshine.
Yeah. That'll show 'em.
Pfffft.
You don't know it's not a good idea for BIGGER
nm
Government intervention is NEVER a good idea!
Any time the government becomes involved in ANYTHING, the price tag always quadruples and takes FOREVER to complete, if ever! That's just the facts.
Government intervention is NEVER a good idea!
Any time the government becomes involved in ANYTHING, the price tag always quadruples and takes FOREVER to complete, if ever! That's just the facts.
Government run ANYTHING is NEVER a good idea! Call
nm
Just trying to be logical, but I doubt security wise that would be a good idea.
.
socialized firefighting in ca
I think Libby meant her/his post as tongue in cheek. Obviously Bush had nothing to do with the fires. My post about socialized firefighting is the truth. The govt pays for firefighting in CA. It is a govt job. CA could never exist with volunteer firefighters like in some parts of the USA.
Socialized health care = semantics...
what it boils down to is, when you have the federal government start administering all health care, quality of care will go down, not up, and access to care will be even more difficult. You cited Medicare and Medicaid...both rife with waste and fraud. We read about it every other day. The VA system for soldiers is federally run...tell me how well THAT is working, and that is not for every person in the US. I would like a poll of rank and file Canadians...I would like to know what individuals think of their health system. The only one I saw quoted said 55% of his paycheck is taken off the top for taxes, and a large part of that is what funds the health care system. There ARE waiting lists for operations. And even if you have the money privately to pay for your own operation if time constraint is involved, you are NOT allowed to jump the "list." That is why many Canadians cross the border for emergent care and surgery. Just a couple of weeks ago there was the story of the two women with high-risk pregnancies who could not be hospitalized because there was nowhere to put them. They ended up in Seattle.
So no thanks. I would much rather have a full cost of premiums tax refund, which is what some have proposed. Yeah, you will still have to cough up the premiums for a year, but then if you take your refund at the end of the year and put it in the bank...voila. There are your premiums for the next year. And we can keep the quality of care we have and the access we have.
That would be my choice, far, far ahead of any kind of federal government subsidized and administered health care...which is what Hillary is proposing, only calling it "universal" instead of socialized. Same difference.
This taste of your own medicine has been
nm
Is it time for your medicine?
su
I hear a lot about medicine....(sm)
but that doesn't make me a doctor, and I certainly would not try to treat a patient. The whole idea of reporting the news is just that....reporting....as opposed to making the news.
Can someone please explain to me the "socialized medicine"?
What do you mean about socialized medicine that Obama wants?
I understand your view of 'socalized' medicine
I have heard the horror stories from people from Canada, so you'll get no argument from me there.
When you have group coverage through an employer, they cannot deny you. However, I have found that some still require you to wait out the pre-existing condition time period (usually 12 months). As most employers require full-time for insurance benefits, you HAVE to work full time for this.
If you are trying to get individual health insurance on your own, I found out the hard way that they can absolutely deny you. (I did not know that, I was naive I guess and thought that they could use the pre-existing condition clause, but I never knew they could flat out deny you). That is the problem I have - that people can be totally denied. I have no problem paying for insurance for 12 months while the bills continue to rack up because they're not covered, I understand that it's business. However, I don't think they should be able to deny people based on a condition or illness (isn't that descrimination?) I think the insurance companies should have some limits on what they are allowed to do, such as denying coverage.
There are also other issues with the insurance company essentially dictating patient care, but it's getting late and I'm sleepy! :) Thanks for explaining your view!
let me tell you what my son thinks -
My son voted for McCain - his reasoning? "Well, it don't matter, we are gonna be in a war whoever gets it". Exact words...
When I asked him why he voted McCain, he said he did not know, that's just who he chose when he had to mark something.
When I asked him about issues, again, he did not know.
When we talked about the economy and everything that has been going on in the last months, he did not know anything about it. Said they were not allowed any newspapers or TV and so they did not know what was going on in the world.
Of course, he is in basic training, but those boys should be allowed to have information also so that they can make an informed decision. How many of those 18 year olds really know what they just voted for? Obviously not many if my son's respones to me are the norm.
And you know what, my son wants to come out and he thinks the military is going to pay for his college. Did you happen to see the link I posted below about McCain voting against the extra funding for the GI bill? My son did not have a chance to find that out before he voted...
I don't know who thinks they are the
highly educated on this board, you or gourdpainter. You 2 have a lot in common! You really do need a breath of fresh air, honey. They sure didn't teach you about respect in that (now get ready) college...
Thank you! And anyone who still thinks he's
a Muslim is an uninformed idi*t. I wish people would at least educate themselves before voting....
Me thinks you are right......... sm
Might want to hit the farm and ranch store and stock up on seeds for planting come spring. And hang on to those newspapers.......just in case! LOL
I think we all know how well he thinks
showed us this at his big fiasco on the Rick Warren special, which was the only time during the entire campaign he was caught without his teleprompter. He stuttered and stammered half of his time away instead of answering the questions. And now, his so-called press conferences are prearranged. He knows who he is going to call on when he steps on stage and I feel sure he has given the reporters the questions they are allowed to ask. He is one sly, smooth-talking devil alright, and you betcha, he thinks about what he is going to say carefully before he says it!
So now you know what God thinks...wow...
To use your God to promote prejudice...Christian? Christian means to follow Christ..and Christ NEVER presumed to know what the Father God was thinking. Get away from me!!!
No - he just THINKS he is on TV
He's only that great in his own mind.
Actually most of the posts in support of TS are just TS using different monikers. Read some of them, you will see the pattern...
Oh and I really DON'T care what he thinks. sm
I mean none of us really should, liberal or conservative. I don't know about you, but as I hit the middle ages of my life, I have way more to worry about than what some overpaid actor thinks about anything. It just isn't real h igh on my list of things I care about. Now that I am back in school, and really struggling to find a career that will last me the rest of my life, I have even less time for things like this.
I cannot argue with someone who thinks as you do.
You decry killing of innocent civilians when they are Muslim only. Israeli have lived with killings for decades. Where was your pain then?
Not everyone follows what the pope thinks
...
Well, wonder what the general thinks about...
the 500 metric tons of yellowcake uranium that was just moved out of Iraq to Canada...Ms. Valerie Plame said during that big scandal that Hussein did not even have access to it...and now we have...uh...500 metric tons of it removed from Iraq. The Bush Administration and new Iraqi government kept it secret so the terrorists operating there would not target it until they could get it out of there. Got any idea how much 500 metric tons is? There's your reality check. Hussein was everything Clinton and his admin and Bush and his admin said he was. And he DID have WMD...he used it on his own people. Reality check indeed.
As to abortion...and Roe vs. Wade. Roe vs. Wade is illegal on its face. Activist judges struck down a law and made a new one, and they cannot do that by the Constitution. Only the COngress on state and federal level can enact law. FOr that reason alone it should be struck down.
It's all about choice? Then why can a mother drown a 2-day-old baby and that's murder? That's a choice as well. Why can't a person just shoot someone they find annoying and inconvenient? That's a choice.
Maybe it is not a priority to you, my friend. It is to me. So you vote for the man who will give you the right to choose, and I will vote for the man who at some point will stand up for the Constitution and not install activist judges who pick and choose which parts of the Constitution to uphold.
Better than a mortal who thinks....
he is God.
Me thinks he has been scrutinized
very well, and everything they come up with has been shown to be lies or fantasy. Ask yourself why congressmen would endorse Obama if there was something to hide, i.e. Muslim, extremist, Ayers, whatever else you would like to throw at him. Now they're saying he grew up in Pakistan. Silly season.
You just might have a big surprise me thinks. lol.
Anyone who thinks infanticide A-OK....
don't even know how to BEGIN to categorize. Blinded and cult-like are certainly close. Don't you think that basic human morality precludes infanticide??
This is hilarious! Anyone who thinks
this post and answers are for real, stand on your head!
Well the O thinks he's above the law - see article
http://www.borderfirereport.net/sher-zieve/obama-too-important-to-respond-to-us-supreme-court.html
I don't the SC takes too kindly to people who think they are above the law.
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