Another neocon lie. GT has repeatedly tried to debate
Posted By: Jackie on 2005-09-18
In Reply to: You've never debated - Reality check
in an intelligent non-bashing manner, but you people can't stand that.
Just go to page #11 and see the posts on 7/20 and 7/21 where she took MT's abuse, let it roll off her back and tried to debate with her, watched as MT was close to having a seizure and then told her to chill.
Reading the archives is interesting. LOL. Even see one where MT denies being a conservative and then says she'll never post here again. 
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Why do you need repeatedly compare us?
This is so very curious. I never said I was anything like her at all, she never said she was anything like me. She and I don't know each other and neither of us really have a lot in common aside from a few basic beliefs. Why have you chosen to compare us? Why not compare me to Democrat, LVMT, Gadfly..... I guess that's about all that post here anymore,,,,,what is your point in doing this? It seems like it is a platform to repeatedly put me down. But really, you can succeed in doing that without dragging other posters in on this charade.
I have no desire to compare you to anyone and then perseverate and perserverate on that point. Yes, please, find a different horse to beat or whatever it is you are doing.
The administrator came on ONCE not REPEATEDLY and she came on all boards.
She did not say to stay off the boards. She said not to slam posters. Now, if you can manage to take a second of your time and check out the conservative board, you will see the same thing is taking place there. The only difference is that they are not whining about it. Get real.
Obama has said repeatedly he will RAISE
xx
Why do you suppose he was asked repeatedly
Why do you suppose he was not able to give any? Did you not notice that his facts were not straight (as in false claims) about a governor being a commmander in chief?
I am curious. Why does JM get a pass when he refuses interviews but when Obama does it he is the devil incarnate? Can you say hypocrisy?
No, but they have repeatedly reported the anchor
@
Obama has repeatedly described himself as a Christian.
I'm going to take him at his word, not that it matters much to me which religion he practices. What matters to me is his character, and I'd put that way above some that I've witnessed on this board.
America is NOT "only" a Christian nation any longer. America promises freedom of religion for EVERYONE, not just Christians.
Do YOU stone your children for straying?
How about slavery? (My guess is you're in favor of that one.)
He was just pointing out that sometimes literal translations of the Bible aren't applicable. In other words, he made sense. 
Kind of tired of being repeatedly baited....sm
by the hit squad. This is old news.
You're doing just fine by yourself.
Insanity is performing the same action repeatedly
and expecting different results. What makes you think the Supreme Court is going to find any differently than every other court... He was born in Hawaii & is a citizen, and nothing is going to change that no matter how many stars you wish upon.
You have been requested REPEATEDLY by the administrator to stay off this board.
....exceedingly simple rules as put forth by the owner of this board. Please tell me what the problem is. Is that part of being a conservative Republican?
Repeatedly, JTBB has constantly "LOL, ROFL" at
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Fox News Caught Repeatedly Cropping, Manipulating Video
Hey, kids! Do you ever get tired of Fox News' crops? I don't mean the food
they might be literally growing, in Glenn Beck's Doom Room, in preparation for
Imminent Socialist Panic. I'm talking about the way they manipulate video to
make it look like people are just straight up saying the opposite thing they
actually said. Well, it's been bothering the media critics at Media Matters For
America for some time, and they have, for a long time, been cataloging "examples
of Fox News hosts and correspondents cropping comments by progressives and
Democratic political figures in a manner that misrepresents them." A new mash-up
video offers some side-by-side examples of what they're talking about.
Some constructive criticism? I think the third example -- Obama's "empathy"
criteria for Supreme Court justice -- isn't the best example of a Fox cropping.
While it's certainly true that Major Garrett's statement, "That aggravates those
who feel that justices should follow the Constitution and legislative intent,"
seems to neatly ignore the fact that Obama's next statement was "I will seek
someone who is dedicated to the rule of law, who honors our Constitutional
traditions, who respects the integrity of the judicial process, and the
appropriate limits of the judicial role," the fact is, just about every news
organization honed in on the "empathy" part of the statement. It became the
sound bite from that press exchange.
In a more lengthy report, however, Media Matters has other candidates that
are fitting examples of these games with videotape, well worth reviewing. Key
examples include Sean Hannity's intentional omission of Obama's admonishment of
Europeans' "casual...insidious" anti-Americanism to make it look like Obama was
apologizing for the United States, and Wendell Goler's splice-happy report that
made it look like Obama was in favor of "European-style health care," when he
was actually specifically opposing it. Also close to my heart is Fox's
misleading insertion of an out-of-context Joe Biden clip into a report, for
which the network eventually had to apologize. At the time, I opined:
It's very sad, and weird, because Fox News would have made their point just
fine if they hadn't included the misleading part of this clip. All they've
really done is demonstrate that they do not have enough faith in their own
editorial premises to avoid bolstering them with falsehoods. But more to the
point, whoever is responsible for putting this video together needs to accept a
new prevailing reality, that stupid little lies like this will be debunked and
exposed very quickly, so they may as well just cut out this nonsense
entirely.
Yet they persist!
Her point is that Obama voted repeatedly against tax breaks for the middle class and suddenly he'
the middle class person's best friend! Funny how now he wants to help us, when each time he had the opportunity to, he voted against it.
Debate, lets debate
Honey, I dont know if your problem is Alzheimer's or Parkinson's but I have debated all over this board..I have tried and tried again and again to debate with your cohorts..It starts out okay and then your conservative friends start attacking and it continues through the debate to where then there is no longer a debate. I ask for you to check the archives and you will see this..nothing but personal attacks against me, which then I attacked back..Debate..lets debate..I WOULD LOVE TO DEBATE WITHOUT ATTACKS..Place an issue and lets debate..Who knows..my consciousness might be raised or yours might be..Lets do it,,
Bye bye neocon
GET OFF THE LIBERAL BOARD, FOR PETE SAKE, GET OFF THE LIBERAL BOARD, WE DONT WANT YOU HERE.
Bye bye, neocon
Bye, bye, neocon..you have been told quite a few times to stay off the liberal board..IMHO save yourself from grief and angst..dont read this board, dont post on this board, dont come on this board..
Neocon.
I always thought neocon mean the **new and improved version** the *reenergized*, the uber-conservative.
We are the ones who think what is causing so much of the problem is the attitude of the American left.
The true conservative is not faint of heart, and we've still got a lot of fight left in us...for the the actual war and for the fight against the extreme leftists who have now unashamedly positioned themselves as a roadblock in the effort.
The above statements you made are what I was referring to about the maligning the left. These hawkiest of the hawks are backpeddaling which is a huge shock to me, but you think the problem is **the American left** who have **positioned themselves as a roadblock.**
I, on the other hand, think these guys mentioned in the article said they felt the administration was incompetent. Perleman said he still thought his own philosophy about spreading democracy and using a dominant military was the right way to go; he has just discovered that this administration can't do it. I believe he said, verbatim, it's a good idea but we have to throw it in the Can't Do drawer because it is over, at least for a generation. None of these guys mentioned the left as being part of the problem; they laid it squarely on the shoulders of this administration.
Yep, it's not hard to believe that the neocon
Limberger is a liar in the midst of all of his drama how can he keep a story straight?
He probably forgets half of it anyway, that's the drug effect.
One more thing, neocon
Furthermore, no one is asking you conservatives to leave the board because of **my tender feelings**..I only know these people through their posts, why would they ask you to leave because of me..What I post and my beliefs, I DEFEND THEM AND DO NOT ASK ANYONE ELSE TO **GANG UP WITH ME** against conservatives which is not like your ilk, who always gang up with your conservative cohorts on the liberal board against the liberals. Whatever reason anyone on the liberal board asks you to leave is NOT BECAUSE OF GT..Maybe in your psyche it is easier to take, thinking..well, they only ask us to leave because of **GT's tender feelings**..Well, that is not the reason..I have never asked anyone on the liberal board to back me up or to ask you conservatives to leave..It is their opinions, beliefs and feelings and I have mine..When they ask you to leave they do so for their own reasons, NOT MINE.
Actually no, that isn't what Neocon means at all. sm
And I wasn't the one who wrote the things you are responding to, but here is a really good definition of Neocon and perhaps you can see why AG and I and others have stridently objected to being labeled Neocon in the past. Though I have some Neocon friends and I admire most of their beliefs, I am no Neocon. Neither, for that matter, is President Bush, who has been labeled a neocon ad nauseum on these boards.
From Chris Jones:
It would appear that you are unfamiliar with the history of the neo-conservative movement, a history which explains why some folks associate it with Jews and why the use of “neo-con” as a pejorative seems to some to smell of anti-Semitism.
The original “neo-conservatives” were a group of left-of-center intellectuals who became disillusioned with their liberal politics and became conservatives — mostly, but not exclusively, on foreign policy and national security issues. Many, but not all, of these intellectuals were Jewish, and the “center of gravity” of the nascent neo-conservative movement was Commentary magazine and its editors and writers. Prominent among the early neo-conservatives were Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz (who are Jewish) and Jeanne Kirkpatrick (who is (I think) a Gentile). Commentary magazine played the role in the neo-conservative movement that was played by National Review in the broader conservative intellectual movement of the 1960s and 1970s.
The contemporary conservative journalists Bill Kristol and John Podhoretz are the sons of the early neo-conservatives Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz.
The defining characteristic of neo-conservatism, properly so called, is a belief in a robustly activist foreign policy by people who were formerly left-of-center. The movement is associated with Jewish-ness because many of its early leading lights happened to be Jews; but Jewish-ness is accidental to the movement, not characteristic of it. To use “neo-con” as a sort of vaguely anti-Semitic slur is not only dishonorable, but a misuse of language. That doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen, though.
Another cut and paste from a neocon rag
Boy, you are a slow learner. You complain to another poster that the NY Times is liberal slanted yet you cut and paste from you right-wing neocon rags (I know you don't like the neocon label but too bad). You make it appear this is your original thinking. You post this stuff like it's your original writing and thinking but it's all cut and paste or right-wing propanda. I think you get 1 star on this one but you get high marks for crazed and annoying persistence and perserveration.
You evidently don't know what a NeoCon is.
She is not one of them. Why do you think Bush & Cheney and other NeoCons are upset by this pick.
Is this what the democrat party has turned into...hateful, mean-spirited, sour, and jealous. Your comments are about the lowest I have seen in a long time.
The only thing I can think of is that you thought because Bush was such a horrible president and everyone hates him that Barack and Joe would just be able to waltz in and take over. Now the republicans have a good VP candidate and there is more and more discussions about how JM has just elevated his chances of winning. The more people are learning about her the more they are like her and all reports for both conservative and liberals are in agreement with one thing...this is an amazing lady and definitely qualified to become the first woman president in history.
You are just grasping at straws trying to invent things that are not true and just stir up trouble.
Your comments are so juvenile. I just say thank goodnes at least I'm not in grammar school anymore.
Neocon human shield
You are the one who is so PRO WAR, why dont you become a human shield and go to Iraq and help the unfortunate people we have destroyed and stop spouting your hate and baloney here. Im anti war, 100% and anti Bush for sure..I hope Bush rots in hell along with his family because they could have talked some sense into him. They all should go to Iraq if they believe so much in the *noble mission*..Oh, wait a minute, what is the mission? WMD?, Nah, liberating Iraq and creating a Demcracy, nah, never gonna happen.
Typical NeoCon spincrud
NOBODY KNOWS for a FACT what is causing climate change on earth. It's just as much propaganda to hear one side as the other on the matter. Not surprising however that NeoCons would find outrageous the fact that anyone might want to take some action to lessen the human impact on the planet in hopes of preserving some part of it for future generations. Oh, how EVIL! Oh, the dark awful motivations of people who want to CLEAN THE AIR and restore some balance to our atmosphere.
Besides that the article is ridiculously stupid. It harps on KILLER hurricanes. Oooh killer hurricanes are DECREASING DECREASING.
Interesting fact ANYONE can figure out for themselves: Hurricane ANDREW (note the first letter) struck on an August 29. First hurricane of the season that year. On August 29.
Note Katrina's first letter: K. That makes her the 11TH hurricane of this year. On August 29.
While the category 4's and 5's are rare, the instance for having them at all is VASTLY INCREASED WHEN THE NUMBER OF HURRICANES THAT COULD BECOME ONE ARE VASTLY INCREASED. Last year and this year both have shown an astonishing upsurge in the NUMBER of hurricanes were are experiencing per season. Since hurricanes are born in the hot air over the African desert, the fact that the desert is expanding by leaps and bounds due to an upward trend in temperatures in that region virtually guarantees we will be having more and more hurricanes that have a chance to develop into killers under just the right conditions.
Nobody knows if global warming is responsible for the expansion of the Sahara or the melting of the polar glaciers, or if the worldwide phenomenon is due to mankind's effects or is just a natural cycle we can't avert. WHO CARES. If some educated people believe they know a way we can HELP the situation why do NeoCons want to thwart them? Oh, right, because corporations might lose money. Our oil economy might burp. So, let's just pooh the world away why don't we. Let's make it a political game and let our arrogant pride hold out for the sake of nothing but holding out. That's the NeoCon game!
another ignorant post from a neocon
Your accusation that because Im liberal/democrat/anti war and so I smoke reefer shows your ignorance..PERIOD..I dont post in broad generalizations and I ask you to show me where I have..PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE I HAVE POSTED IN BROAD GENERALIZATIONS OR LIES. And, I once again ask you to show me the news reports of where there was a stench in the DC mall because of the anti war people or the anti war people in your town do not bathe and stink..Show me the stories..Waiting for the proof..sure hope you can post it, otherwise guess you are discredited and proven to be a liar (so what else is new, conservative=liar)..Guess you need to find another handle to post under the liberal board, LOL.
Have you seen the neocon think tank's web page?sm
This is who supplies Bush with most of his ideas. Take a look at the PNAC's members list.
www.newamericancentury.org
Also, take a look at:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
Their plan is for super power and extensive wars. Lebanon is simply a pretext to invading Iran,just like they used 911 to invade Afghanistan (but really wanted to attack Iraq not for WMD but for their energy resources). Doing a little more research you will also find the USA Patriot Act was written before 9-11.
And you demonstrate neocon policies.
Lying and attacking and personal insults. You can't defend the issues because your theory is indefensible.
Again, this is the liberal board. We're not here to please you.
You are still misusing the term Neocon. sm
Not that you will stop, but it is irritating.
From one post you figure someone is a neocon...
geez. Post a clip, so people can see the whole context of what was said. Then let them decide. After all the ripping of Sarah Palin, you seize on this? Walls shattering in your glass house there, friend.
Neocon, I think you are posting on the wrong board
GET OFF THE LIBERAL BOARD, FOOL..we dont want you here.
Coulter - Acerbic Neocon Banshee.sm
This woman has nerve calling anyone Godless when she supports an administration commiting genocide throughout the world. The 911 truth movement is getting stronger every day, so it does not surprise me she is attacking 911 widows. Her most priceless statement was, they ought to just take the money and shut up on MSNBC last night.
Most on the left misuse the term neocon. sm
I think they just like the sound of it, especially the *con* part.
Pay close attention. The question was about pub/NeoCon
Do the conservatives have any clue about how to address these issues, other than run from them. This is a yes or no question.
Nice 2 C fascism is alive and well in NeoCon USA.
Keep this up and the only thing Obama will have to do to win the election is keep breathing.
Williams confronts neocon pundit Kristol.sm
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/16/kristol-williams/
NeoCon cult vision promotes more fear.
nm
Yeah, right. Creating a NeoCon parallel universe
nm
Careful! Some neocon troll might twist your post into a threat!!!
More delusions of grandeur from the NCFC (Neocon/femocon) fringe.
su
Luckily, your foul tricks won't work this time. Begone, NeoCon.
You guys have tried this before and the only reason it worked was because a) you had a fresh crop of victims every few months or so as the liberals you didn't like got banned from the board, and b) you know the ins and outs because you yourselves were posting under multiple names repeatedly for a very long time. Your favorite trick was always to accuse others of doing what you yourselves were constantly doing, and you vicously accused a lot of innocent people who had no idea what you were talking about. I believe the Bible calls this false witness. Not that you'd care.
The liberals don't have to resort to such deceit. They actually say something in their posts and they believe in what they say. They stand by their words.
It's the one-line slimers who post and run anonymously and try to pump themselves up to look like more than they are by posting under multiple names, agreeing with themselves - they have nothing better to do, no real thoughts to offer, and no real desire to communicate. Hence the anonymous posts they don't want to own. All they are about is tearing down and creating conflict - kind of like the administration they revere.
So don't try it, NeoCons - your habit of blaming others for the deceit you practice yourselves isn't going to fly anymore. You're busted.
You do not know how to debate
you are the biggest hypocrite ever. I was debating with you, but just because you didn't like what I said you said I was attacking you.
Again, you're are a sad individual....hateful sad individual.
As far as I see it, there is no debate.
This country has gone to the dogs. We are now just another *invading* country, with no morals, no Constitution, nothing of which to be proud. We have a lying, warring regime taking us down with them, taking our freedoms, spitting on the Constitution, tearing the very fabric of this country, and you see nothing evil about that? That, my fellow American, is what I cannot comprehend. Furthermore, Iraq was not our enemy. The Bush Family MADE him our enemy so that our very DEMOCRACY would be eroded to the point that we won't even recognize by the time he is out of office. And you don't see any EVIL in that? WAKE UP, Smell the coffee, or even the stench that wreaks from this regime.
Debate
One of the biggest problems that we have today is our inability to have intellegent discussions. The previous commenters irrational, over-wrought statements, frought with conspiracy theory, does an excellent job of proving that point. There is plenty of grist for calling those in power to task for their actions and decisions without foaming at the mouth. Oh, how I long for the days of the old boy's club of the congress before the eighties when people of conscience could disagree on substance, still be fast friends and treat their political opposites with respect and decorum. I'm contuinally amazed how the most vocal and extreme ascribe nefarious motives to others. This seems to be, almost exclusively, an affliction of the left. Without this intellectual pollution, we might be able to actually find common ground.
Debate me...
First it was that **we couldn't debate,** now it is ** persecution.** When did I say I was persecuted. I merely said the Crusades have been seen in a negative light for as long as I can remember and suddenly they are being seen in a good light. That's all, kaput, the end. Martyr...don't think so.
I don't know how you can live with such disdain for all liberals and all Arab peoples and have any peace or joy in your life. That is a full-time job, being angry.
debate
Hillary all the way -
No need to debate this...because I see it as the same and you do not....
I listened to AL Franken on Air America quite a few times...that was mild, and it was not a joke. He meant it when he said it. I find that offensive. You do not, probably because Ann Coulter did not say it talking about Democrats. Face it, if Ann Coulter had made the same comment Al Franken did, substituting Democrat names and Democrat for Republican, you would not say Ann Coulter was obviously joking and ignore it. That is what I am talking about...you can see exactly what Ann COulter did wrong, but blow off Al Franken as obviously joking. I just don't get that kind of rationalization, sorry. No offense meant...just don't understand it, and it seems so prevalent on the left side of the house. I mean, I can say Ann Coulter was wrong and that both statements by both people were offensive and wrong. You can agree that what Franken said was tasteless and classless, yet he gets a buy as *obviously joking." I just don't get why you can't just say both were wrong and leave it at that...Coulter has to be worse and Franken gets a buy.
Debate
Once again, this is a subject I feel very strongly about. I applaud anyone who broadens their education by learning a foreign language or learning anything new for that matter.
That being said, I believe that anyone who wishes to immigrate to THIS country should wish to embrace our language, our customs and our way of life, not the other way around. I am speaking here of the illegal INVADERS. I imagine that those who become citizens through legal channels, most likely learn English. I am sick to death of hearing babbling everywhere I go, to the grocery store, to restaurants, everywhere. My ancestors immigrated LEGALLY from Ireland and Germany. The other side of the ancestors were herded up and driven to a reservation like so many cattle. I live next door to the Cherokee Nation and not once have I heard them speaking in their native tongue outside of their Powwows, although they strive to keep the language alive. They don't require a press 1 for Cherokee on every telephone message system.
If this language issue isn't enough, it infuriates me that the Mexicans can come here to OUR country and march in their demonstrations while waving their MEXICAN flag.
Unfortunately, the reason we have to learn THEIR language to commuicate is most likely the majority who enter our country illegally are ignorant in even the most basic education and thus not likely to be able to learn a foreign language i.e. English.
You are correct, if we aren't willing to stand up for the heritage of our country; we may as well learn the language as one day we will most likely be part of Mexico and Spanish will be the official language.
debate is on
per debate commission and Obama. Let's rock.
debate
i will probably watch on cnn. i do not want to miss a word or a fumble/jumble confused silly look on anyone's face. I am my own best commentator and so will listen to the commentators after the debate.... one candidate is really not overly intelligent. i will see how well he was briefed...looking forward to the comedy !
I too think that this debate could have
been more indepth and not just the same old ho hum we have been hearing since the start. Then again, it was only the first debate and hopefully they will get better. We have a right to hear specifics from both candidates. We have a right to see them put on the spot to see how well they handle themselves. I want specific questions directed to each candidate and I was specific answers with details. I don't want just a pleasant little Q&A session of fluff.
On the debate....
I was kinda struck by how Obama kept harping on the 10 billion a day (was it?) spent in Iraq...but talking about more troops to Afghanistan. Three brigades I think he said he would send. Okay. So, we are just going to transfer the 10 billion a day to Afghanistan instead of Iraq. Still going to spend it, just in a different place. I was almost yelling at the TV at McCain...ASK HIM ABOUT THAT. lol.
All kidding aside....what I took away from it was Obama leans heavily on Joe Biden for the foreign policy stuff because he is just out of his element. I thought Obama looked uncomfortable, and I got really tired of the smirk after awhile.
On the other hand...in all fairness, John needs to drop the "Miss Congeniality" line. I was talking to the TV again..."we know, John, we KNOW." lol.
I think what makes Obama dangerous is his world view. I do not say that to be mean....I just don't think he is realistic about it. On the one hand he praises General Petraeus (that he got right), and turns right around and won't own up to the fact that the surge worked (even though O'Reilly got him to admit it). Just goes back to the war was wrong. The country is still divided on that. You can't turn back time...and to lose it now would be wrong. Petraeus DID say Obama's plan for a timetable was wrong. I would think more of him if he would say "okay john, you were wrong about the war, but we're there and can't change that. And I was wrong about the surge." I know...dream on...lol.
It was a little alarming to me, facing what we are facing with this "rescue" bill, he STILL talked about spending bazillion dollars. He would not, when pressed, name ONE thing he would put on hold. That just makes NO sense to me, with the "rescue" bill, the deficit, owing money to China yada yada....and wants to fund that stuff with stiff taxes for business...in a down economy. Sorry, I think that's NUTS. Sorry....that also tells me he is either not real smart, or trying to get the vote of people who can't see past "he is going to lower my taxes and give me free health care." I really don't think he is not really smart, so if he gets selected he will be saying "I wanted to do these things, but the economy won't let me."
I have heard people talk all morning (on the Dem side) about how he mentioned the middle class and John McCain didn't. Frankly, the way it appeared to me, was Obama was pandering to the have nots and McCain is not going to promise something he knows he couldn't deliver in the economic situation we find ourselves in. I thought it was kinda patronizing actually. McCain understands that small businesses and yes, nasty corporations, drive this economy and employ a huge number of Americans. In an economic downturn higher taxes on businesses does not work.
Another thing I think McCain should have JUMPED on is that Obama supports the Hank Paulson rescue plan endorsed by Bush and John McCain doesn't like it as it stands. Obama is siding with BUSH! Oh well....lol.
in this debate
the results would be the same no matter who the moderator or modulator or referee or interpretor was.
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