And this is exactly the kind of attitude

that I feel will ruin us if Obama is elected.  Oh...if you don't want to pay your fair share.....just don't make as much.  Why should people feel like they have to lower their income.  It will make hard working people not want to work hard because the government just takes what they earn.  Then you have the people who don't make anything and are living off of the government and that number will grow.  The more government assistance given, the more they want and the more they will take.  It will make spending for these programs outrageous.  Why should we enable people to mooch off of the government? 

I understand there are people who legitimately need help.  People who are truly disabled and can't work.  However, there are many others who are literally just mooching so they don't have to work. 

I have to think of MY future.  I have two kids who will go through college.  One boy is a freshman now so college really isn't too fair away.  I have a house I'm paying for.  I have a special needs child that requires more of my money.  I want to put my hard earned money back for my kids and myself for a rainy day.  I don't want it taken from me and given to people who I don't know and who I don't know whether they truly need it or are just lying and mooching off of the government. 

The bottom line is this, making more money is an incentive to work hard.  You take their money away and give to people who don't work hard and what does that show.....it shows that you don't have to work hard because the government will pick of the tab and it shows the hard workers....why bother.  I don't want that for my country.  I don't want my kids raised in that kind of life thinking that hard work doesn't pay off. 

• Give this board your PROS and CONS about - Let's try this
  • F: Obama is going to raise MY taxes... - danfan
    • Well I hope your DH never loses his job - Cheapo Depot
      • We have had our financial plan in order - danfan
        • To whom much is given, much is expected.nm - huh?
          • And those that do less, get paid less.... - sm
    • i don't mind working and helping out others - sm
      • I wouldn't mind making 250K and paying - holycrap
        • Are you kidding me?????? - sm
    • See my msg above please - you should not begrudge giving to those who CAN'T work. How selfish of - About giving - not repub/not dem
    • AMEN! - rmb
    • He will raise taxes for us all. - Chele
      • Taxes - gourdpainter
        • If you would read the facts.... - Chele
          • Facts - gourdpainter
          • rick davis campaign manager - Shera
    • since you are obviously making - Bristle
    • Holycrap! You make more than 250K a year! - holycrap
      • Not just my job, DH is the major earner. We shouldn't be. - danfan
        • My dear, you will not be paying any - holycrap
          • Think for a moment.... - sm
        • you're not being penalized. - Bristle
          • And this is exactly the kind of attitude - Chele
            • put on your flag pin, your big - Bristle
            • Well said. If we could only pick and choose who to help.. - danfan
              • I truly hope that I never have to - Chele
                • At one point in my life, I was working - huh?
              • Go ahead, I'm sure she will accept your help. Email her and find out where to mail your help. nm - About giving - not repub/not dem
                • So, let me get this right... - danfan
                  • Work less, earn less..... - sm
                  • To whom much is given, much is expected... - huh?
                  • what's wrong with making - Bristle
                    • We would gladly pay a 10% flat tax, which is quite fair to everyone - danfan
                      • if that is what you want - Bristle
                        • That kind of attitude makes you sound jealous and petty.. - danfan
                          • Your jealous and petty - Bristle
                            • Our hard work shouldn't go to support those - danfan
                              • taxes are taxes - Shera
                • My point being.....sm - About giving - not repub/not dem
                  • so let the government tell us?? - pc
  • F: Obama more intelligent, better educated. nm - oldtimer
    • better educated does not always - cj
    • F. Than YOU - smartermt
      • I won't argue that point! nm - oldtimer
  • Are you the Moderator? - pc
    • No, just a poster. - Let's try this
    • No - the deregulator. - McClain

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I'm sorry if you are offended by my opinion that I don't want to pay more in taxes. You wouldn't either if the tables were turned.

just makes you seem somewhat sexist and I really was just curious? 

is quite amazing.  Exactly how do you know that Obama was not sent by God, or as you would say, that the will of mankind by choosing Obama is not in line with the will of God?  Has, per chance, your god bestowed upon you the gift of seeing into the future? If this is not the case, exactly what do you base your assumptions about the job Obama will do on?  Maybe its because you have bought into the fear doctrine of Bush so much that you can't see beyond it.

You said, *If you believe for one minute that Obama is going to change the way that Iran or any other country in the middle east view America you are very, very naive.  The only thing Obama will accomplish will be to weaken this country in an effort to make us more "likeable" to the world and in the end the only thing we will be is weak*

I would love to hear your definition of *weak.*  From what I can gather from your posts, weak in your eyes is the unwillingness to use force first.  So, what is so wrong with diplomacy?  Is your only response to a situation the *shoot first and ask questions later* mentality?  Believe it or not, there is strength in the ability to negotiate and compromise with others.  Since you base everything on religion, what does your Bible say about that?  Does it not teach compassion and understanding?  Of have you just interpreted it in a manner that suits you personally? 

Do I believe Obama will put an end to offshoring American jobs?  I believe that is his goal, unlike Bush and McCain who both supported tax breaks for companies overseas who do that exact thing.  Look up their voting records.

*How can he make America liked and respected by other countries, and take away a source of income for so many in third world countries?*    It's called FAIR TRADE.  Look it up.  Maybe you didn't pay attention to what Obama was saying during his campaign.  Did you even listen to him, or did you just get the Fox rendition?  I would be willing to bet that those *third world countries* know more about his policies than you do, and yet they overwhelmingly support him.

And then there's the middle east.  Everyone says they don't want Iran to have nukes.  I agree, but I also don't want anyone else to have nukes either.  You would argue that Iran is too radical to be trusted with them.  I would say the same thing about Israel and the US.  Under Bush's reign we have started 2 major wars and are presently funding Israel in its war to the tune of about over 2 billion a year in direct military support.  Put yourself in someone else's shoes for a while.  If you lived in Iran (a democratic state), you saw this behavior, and you know you are labeled as *next* on the Bush hit list, wouldn't you be trying to arm up?

Now I know you're going to say that each and every one of those wars was justified, but you are sooo wrong it's ridiculous.  Israel -- They have been bullying everyone over there for years in the name of the holy land and are currently killing civilians at an alarming rate.  Iraq -- An unjust war, to say the least.  And then there's Afghanistan, which was supposed to be retaliation for 9/11.  Why do you think 9/11 happened?  Do you think before 9/11 that everyone in the world just loved the US?  News flash -- No, they didn't.  The US has been meddling in the middle east for years on end (which included putting people like Saddam in power).  So, you think that the Bush administration had no way of seeing it coming.  Maybe you missed this interview.  It's very enlightening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5TkWGsmZF0

And yet, you would say that Bush has *kept us safe.*  What a joke!

Amazingly, you call me naive when I am the one looking at the facts, and all you have are innuendos, rumors and guesses about what may happen.  Unfounded fears about the future do nothing for the progression of society.  The sooner you learn that, the sooner you will be able to see the truth.

Instead of actually contributing the conversation, you came along and just decided to pick out someone for a fight.  I really am happy that you have such a wonderful life and that this crisis is seemingly not affecting you.  However, I don't believe that gives you the right to criticize those who are being affected.  But then again, I would assume that was your point -- to just stir up a fight.  Maybe you should spend some of that $600 a month on a hobby.

BTW, if I were trying to be nasty, I would have actually told you that you are mindless wonder instead of just saying I would have called you something else.  LOL.

Lurker had the courage to try to debate you, tried to ignore your rude comments and personal attacks.  Yes, your intelligent debate triggered responses by Lurker, as follow:

Please do not preach at me and tell me I don't understand the concept of working for a living. I try my best not to berate or belittle anyone on this board and I would appreciate the same consideration.

I can see from her above post why you're so happy.  Looks like you succeeded in chasing her away for a while, too.

Everything below is from their official, sanitized website, but for the real view of this group read their forum which includes lots of photos of firearms, many with children alongside them.

________________

"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

-- John Stuart Mill

(From the Mission portion of the website):

War IS an ugly thing, but as long as nations and leaders exist that detest freedom, sometimes it is the only way to secure a lasting peace. Most leftist anti-war protesters and pundits don't understand this. They state that this use of force is always unnecessary -- that war, ANY war, is never good. Some of them, born into the luxury of American freedom, believe that liberty can exist passively, that somehow the world's natural state will always settle into utopian harmony. Others, in an attempt to absolve themselves from the unearned guilt they harbor living in a nation of prosperity and wealth, try to buy morality on the cheap by pronouncing themselves for the 'good'. To them, the derivation of the 'good' is based on a simple, yet peculiar standard: the powerful and competent are wicked, while the feeble and impotent are innocent - regardless of the context. That is why they defend Iraq instead of America, and the Palestinian "resistance" instead of Israel.

"

Do any of you watch Survivor?  I love that show.  I think Im in pretty good shape but there is no way I could survive for a month on an island like they do but I like to watch and make believe that I could (smile).  Snakes and alligators and bugs..YIPES. 

Don't know who you are referring to but I suppose all countries have residents who don't wish it well but I assume that statistically they would be a very tiny minority as really, why would they live in a place they wish to see destroyed?  Seems silly.

This country seems to be unable to educate itself about the nature of our foe.  We rely on leaders who seem to flaunt their ignorance about the middle eastern culture.  So perhaps you are right, there are those who wish us harm.....by utilizing repeatedly the same failed techniques/agendas that as you stated, continue to stoke the fires of hate that have been burning for a very very long time -- the agendas of ignorance and unwillingness to learn from history.  As long as this runaway ignorance prevails our soldiers will continue to die along with the Iraqi civilians and our world will become less safe.

There is a world of heartache ahead in the very near future.  In case you haven't been following the trend, there is one church that has been advising its members for over 100 years to stock pile food and supplies, be self-sufficient, and otherwise make nice with the world.  The holocaust is coming, but there isn't going to be some saving-grace rapture first.  The righteous people will collect into specific locations to survive while the unrighteous have a slug fest and kill each other off.  Its very real and it is likely going to be within this lifetime.

creepy thought for you to be fixated on.  EEEWWW.

I agree with everything you said.

I think that lumping people together and making gross inaccurate generalizations does nothing but prevent any intelligent discourse from occurring, and that's very sad because these issues are very serious.  Our very ability to keep BREATHING may be in jeopardy, particularly if we don't start concentrating on our own safety. Bush  has made Iraq much less safe place to be, and he hasn't done much to make the United States a safe place to be.  If we truly NEED our military someday to protect US in a homeland attack, where will they all be?

What also worries me is that our enemies might consider this a bilateral "religious" war.  They already believe it is, yelling and effecting "Jihad."  But the current focus on one particular brand of Christianity in this country -- not religion in general, but one particular BRAND of Christianity -- makes me wonder if Bush himself doesn't think this is a religious war.  The fact that he might think so is what scares me the most, as history tell us they are the most deadly, bloody wars of all. I personally don't want the U.S. to be known as a "Christian" nation.  One of the things I love the most about this country is the freedom that we're SUPPOSED to have to worship freely, and I will personally oppose anyone who tries to take that away from us.    

It's sad that tolerance and respect aren't in more people's hearts and souls. 

already and the 4th pregnancy could put her life in peril.  Does she allow her other children to go motherless? 

Maybe the kind who underwent extensive testing and was told that her child would be born limbless or so developmentally delayed that any kind of life would be miserable?

Maybe the kind who was raped and does not want to bear the child of a rapist, whether she would be able to put the child up for adoption or not.

A woman's body is her body.  No one should have the right to tell her what to do with it.  There are many reasons to have an abortion.  I personally feel that in the above cases, an abortion is a reasonable option.  I certainly wouldn't wish any of the scenarios above on anyone.  Outlawing abortion in general is wrong.  If you want to prevent it from being used as a form of birth control, then by all means put limitations on it, but don't outlaw it completely.  Sometimes it is the only choice.

Not pro-abortion but definitely pro-choice.  There is a difference.