And perhaps in a related story: Enron Witness Found Dead In Park
Posted By: PK on 2006-07-12
In Reply to: First President Bush Attends Lay's Memorial Service - PK
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5173228.stm
Enron witness found dead in park A body found in north-east London has been identified as that of a banker who was questioned by the FBI about the Enron fraud case.
Police said they were treating the death in Chingford of Neil Coulbeck, who worked for the Royal Bank of Scotland until 2004, as unexplained.
He had been interviewed by the FBI as a potential witness.
Three ex-workers of RBS subsidiary NatWest are being extradited to the US on Thursday to face fraud charges.
The extradition has sparked a political row, with opposition parties and human rights groups claiming the treaty under which they are being sent to the US is one-sided as the Americans are yet to ratify it.
'Highly regarded'
Prime Minister Tony Blair has rejected calls to renegotiate the extradition terms.
Mr Coulbeck's body was found in a park near Newgate Street, Chingford, on Tuesday.
Mr Coulbeck's wife had reported him missing last Thursday. Police have yet to formally identify the body, which was removed from the parkland on Wednesday afternoon.
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One day when this is all over I'm going to be coming home to my wife and children and some poor guy is not
David Bermingham
Former NatWest banker
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Mr Coulbeck had worked at the Royal Bank of Scotland until 2004, most recently as head of group treasury, the bank confirmed.
Neil was highly regarded by his colleagues here in RBS and was a respected, capable and hard working member of our senior management team.
The fraud case centres on a NatWest transaction under which it sold off part of its Enron unit.
RBS said: There is no evidence that Mr Coulbeck was involved in the approval of the transaction under investigation.
RBS has co-operated fully with all the appropriate authorities and made them fully aware of all the relevant facts in our possession.
The FBI said it would not comment while the case was ongoing.
'Appalling'
One of the so-called NatWest three, David Bermingham, said he had been knocked sideways by the news of Mr Coulbeck's death.
It is awful, appalling. One day when this is all over I'm going to be coming home to my wife and children and some poor guy is not and my heart goes out to his wife and family, he said.
He described Mr Coulbeck as a superstar, a thoroughly decent, honest professional guy and a very experienced banker.
Mr Coulbeck was among NatWest staff who made witness statements about the extradition, Mr Bermingham, of Goring, Berkshire, said.
Neil's statement was no more than a page and a half saying who he was and his role, he said.
Fellow accused Giles Darby, speaking from his home in Lower Wraxall, Somerset, said he was absolutely shocked by the death.
It's an utter tragedy. I'm struggling to take it in, really.
Of course, my thoughts are now with Neil's family and friends.
In 2002, US prosecutors issued arrest warrants for the three men, accusing them of conspiring to defraud their employers and investors in energy giant Enron, which had collapsed a year earlier.
It is alleged that the three British bankers - Mr Bermingham, Gary Mulgrew and Mr Darby - advised their employer Greenwich NatWest to sell off its stake in an Enron unit at well below its market value.
MPs' protest
They then left the bank and purchased a $250,000 (£135,000) stake in the unit - which they sold on at a much higher price, making a profit of $7.3m (£3.9m).
They deny any wrongdoing.
Their extradition was debated by MPs in an emergency session of Commons on Wednesday.
After a three-hour debate they voted by a majority of 242 to adjourn the Commons early in symbolic protest at the government's extradition arrangements.
On Tuesday, peers had voted in favour of suspending extradition agreements with the US until the UK-US treated had been ratified there.
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And in a related story...
...*Curious George* wants to know who's visiting porn sites. Hmmmmmm... thought spying was only supposed to be used to catch *terrorists*....
U.S., Google Set to Face Off in Court
By MICHAEL LIEDTKE, AP Business WriterTue Mar 14, 8:16 AM ET
The Bush administration will renew its effort to find out what people have been looking for on Google Inc.'s Internet-leading search engine, continuing a legal showdown over how much of the Web's vast databases should be shared with the government.
Lawyers for the Justice Department and Google are expected to elaborate on their opposing views in a San Jose hearing scheduled Tuesday before U.S. District Court Judge James Ware.
It will mark the first time the Justice Department and Google have sparred in court since the government subpoenaed the Mountain-View, Calif.-based company last summer in an effort to obtain a long list of search requests and Web site addresses.
The government believes the requested information will help bolster its arguments in another case in Pennsylvania, where the Bush administration hopes to revive a law designed to make it more difficult for children to see online pornography.
Google has refused to cooperate, maintaining that the government's demand threatens its users' privacy as well as its own closely guarded trade secrets.
The Justice Department has downplayed Google's concerns, arguing it doesn't want any personal information nor any data that would undermine the company's thriving business.
The case has focused attention on just how much personal information is stored by popular Web sites like Google — and the potential for that data to attract the interest of the government and other parties.
Although the Justice Department says it doesn't want any personal information now, a victory over Google in the case would likely encourage far more invasive requests in the future, said University of Connecticut law professor Paul Schiff Berman, who specializes in Internet law.
The erosion of privacy tends to happen incrementally, Berman said. While no one intrusion may seem that big, over the course of the next decade or two, you might end up in a place as a society where you never thought you would be.
Google seized on the case to underscore its commitment to privacy rights and differentiate itself from the Internet's other major search engines — Yahoo Inc. (Nasdaq:YHOO - news), Microsoft Corp.'s MSN and Time Warner Inc.'s America Online. All three say they complied with the Justice Department's request without revealing their users' personal information.
Cooperating with the government is a slippery slope and it's a path we shouldn't go down, Google co-founder Sergey Brin told industry analysts earlier this month.
Even as it defies the Bush administration, Google recently bowed to the demands of China's Communist government by agreeing to censor its search results in that country so it would have better access to the world's fastest growing Internet market. Google's China capitulation has been harshly criticized by some of the same people cheering the company's resistance to the Justice Department subpoena.
The Justice Department initially demanded a month of search requests from Google, but subsequently decided a week's worth of requests would be enough. In its legal briefs, the Justice Department has indicated it might be willing to narrow its request even further.
Ultimately, the government plans to select a random sample of 1,000 search requests previously made at Google and re-enter them in the search engine, according to a sworn declaration by Philip Stark, a statistics professor at the University of California, Berkeley who is helping the Justice Department in the case.
The government believes the test will show how easily it is to get around the filtering software that's supposed to prevent children from seeing sexually explicit material on the Web.
I only found one story on this. sm
From an obscure site called Rogers Cadenhead. The remainder of the stories, from the LA Times, etc., did not include anything about U.S. Troops protecting the Hezbollah sympathizers.
Yes....this is going to be the Dems' Enron. nm
nm
Funny you should mention Enron....
and Ken Lay. Remember how that saturated the news for weeks and months...because he had Republican connections. We are in the midst of the worst financial crisis this country has faced since the depression, Democrats are up to their eyeballs in it, and do you see ANYTHING in the media about it? Folks, we should be very AFRAID of how these folks conspire to keep the bad Dem news off the air but fall all over themselves to get the bad Repub news on...the LAST thing we need right now is Obama in the white house. The very LAST thing.
It's better off dead than dead AND rude and OBNOXIOUS.
Please respect the monitor's rules, even though you think they're stupid.
Be a witness
http://beawitness.org/splash/
I can witness to the truthfulness
of the statement by Jules. I remember the beginning very clearly because I was familar with Saul Alinsky before the fearmonger happened upon the name and decided to use a 30-second Google scan as a recurrent theme in smear posts. What amuses me greatly is the info about him that she did not read far enough along to bludgeon us with daily. I have been waiting patiently but no mention of it yet - that's how I know if is the most superficial of knowledge.
Can I get a witness, i mean website
I'm looking for a site that details these "bailout plans". I want to know what Capitol Hill wants to do with my tax money. Can anyone direct me to a website that is strictly factual, not politically driven to bias me to 1 party of the other, that would lay out the exact plan?
Well that's an eye witness for you, must be true!
.
First of all Christians who witness know sm
they cannot "save" anyone. Only Jesus Christ can save a soul. If a Christian is witnessing the proper way, he isn't pushing anything down anyone's throat. I will admit, there are some who don't do things correctly and it makes it bad for the ones who do.
As a Christian I want to see everyone I can come to know the Lord Jesus Chris in the free pardon of sin. They have every right to the same heaven I do. Its up to that person to decide who they will serve. It is a free choice.
You might try the Witness Protection Agency... sm
I hear they can help you with that.
You hit that one out of the park!
Good analysis of the situation.
Just another walk in the park.
I simply transferred my post from a thread so long it was beginning to disappear and combined 2 responses in 1 when guess who appeared under one shot. Next time, look before you pounce...rule of the jungle, survival of the fittest and all that good stuff.
You, on the other hand, cannot bear to let a single chance pass you by when it comes to imposing your obnoxious comments where they don’t belong. Juvenile name calling...waste of time (WOT)...a new short cut for you to try to wrap you brain around. Besides, denial is your game, not mine.
Careful, your intolerance is showing, for the umpteenth million time. Zzzzzzzzzzz, so boring.
So, you want to take their park bench away from them and...
have them sit on the curbside?
You can take the woman out of the trailer-park, but
!
it was 1973, Union Square Park in NYC..
as were all these Pro-Lifers kept back behind Bob's Barricade wooden horses....I was there, hundreds were there on 14th Street that day prior to Roe vs Wade being passed....
I was very young....and I remember having this thought....If they are SOOOO interested in what is going on in my and other's uteruses/uteri....why do they NOT take some responsibility for the orphaned/fostered/forgotten children left in this country? Again, I had that thought in 1973....and 35 years have passed and I STILL have the same thought.......my politics never changed......I am that same person I was then, only more mature, somewhat wiser, and very thankful....and I HAVE taken responsibility for MANY children in this country as I adore children....always have...
wonder just how many prolifers have adopted or fostered children left in fostercare/orphanages in this country.....over the same 35-40 year time frame......
that's not to them, they are entitled to feel what they feel...even though I just reread my post and it could be interpreted that way (and sorry for that) -
just get out of our bodies......our bodies, ourselves....(and Our Bodies, Ourselves is a book read way back then too)...and try to think about kids already here, abandoned or given up with no mentoring.....there are thousands of them in the USA.
Peace to all.....
He's a walk in the park at a Sunday picnic
nm
my mamma played recorders in the park
I call it the scruffy generation, but we are tough bunch of people. Hard working. No handouts for us. We are not complainers.
I am biased.
Is someone in this thread related to Senator
 Is that his nick name for McCain supporters? Hey how about McCain sell a few of those houses and give it to the financial companies???? How about the rich do something for a change???? How about that????
This makes me sick, all of it! We need to be addressed by these candidates and not set aside until oil companies and rich folks figure out what happened!!!! We are looking at who is going to be our next President and all Bush cares about are his pockets being lined? Poor thing; did he invest in the wrong stock???
I must be really whacked, but I feel this candidacy is waaaaay more important than IGA, IGM, Wash Mut, Bank of America, Lehman, Looman, Dooman, or dooofus, whatever!!!!! These lenders loaned the money to people who they knew couldn't pay it back and now it has come back to bite them and now its the rest of us having to bail them out. No sympathy here! I stayed within my budget; so sorry others did not!!!!!!!! These candidates are going to run this country. I think Obama is right; let's get it on with the debates.... JMO...
And he's related to Charles Keating!
nm
I think not. both related to redistribution of wealth...nm
Oh, c'mon... the low crime was not only related to - s/msg
the HUGE police/secret service presence that was obviously there, but mainly to the mood. It's the first good news that everyday people in the US have had in a long, long time. It was just one day out of many, where people enjoyed the moment, the hope, the inauguration itself, the promise of the new administration, and a feel-good moment. We all know the glow won't last forever, but why not bask in it and enjoy a great moment in history. Even if you voted for the other candidate, you still have to admit that it was a truly great day for African Americans and ALL Americans to see democracy work right for a change, instead of being fixed and rigged. It was truly a magical day that many in this country, Repub or Dem, will remember for a lifetime.
Robertson to build theme park in Israel; Jews unwilling to convert
Plans for Holy Land theme park on Galilee shore where Jesus fed the 5,000
· Evangelical groups and Israel on brink of deal
· Some Israelis fear motives of US Christian right Conal Urquhart in Tel Aviv
Wednesday January 4, 2006
Guardian The Israeli government is planning to give up a large slice of land to American Christian evangelicals to build a biblical theme park by the Sea of Galilee where Jesus is said to have walked on water and fed 5,000 with five loaves and two fish.
A consortium of Christian groups, led by the television evangelist Pat Robertson, is in negotiation with the Israeli ministry of tourism and a deal is expected in the coming months. The project is expected to bring up to 1 million extra tourists a year but an undeclared benefit will be the cementing of a political alliance between the Israeli rightwing and the American Christian right.
However, the alliance has not been welcomed by all Israelis, including some who fear the ultimate aim of the evangelicals is the conversion of the Jews to Christianity rather than support for Israel.
Jonathan Pulik, a spokesman for the Israeli ministry of tourism, said the Christian market was very important for Israel's tourism industry. We would like to give them more of a reason to come here. We would be willing to lease the land to them free of charge and they would finance the construction.
The site of the centre, covering nearly 50 hectares (125 acres) and provisionally called the Galilee World Heritage Park, would be north-east of the Mount of the Beatitudes where Jesus delivered the Sermon on the Mount, and Capernaum which was described as the town of Jesus in the Bible. It would feature a garden and nature park, an auditorium, a Holy Land exhibition, outdoor amphitheatres, information centre and a media studio.
The ministry of tourism estimates the total cost would be $48m (£28m). Mr Pulik also pointed out that the project would bring large numbers of jobs to the area. Mr Robertson said in a statement that he was fully cooperating with the project but no deal had been formalised. He said he was thrilled that there will be a place in the Galilee where evangelical Christians from all over the world can come to celebrate the actual place where Jesus Christ lived and taught.
The Sea of Galilee is more reminiscent of the Scottish Highlands than the Middle East, particularly in winter and spring when the hills are green. The existing Christian sites are picturesque and understated oases of calm and there is even a Church of Scotland hotel and church in Tiberias, the main town in the area.
A major part of the shore of the Sea of Galilee was Syrian until it was conquered by Israel in 1967. Syria and Israel are still officially in a state of war and Syria insists the return of the Golan Heights and the Galilee shore is a prerequisite for peace.
Uri Dagul, the project coordinator, said the land issues would be concluded within a few weeks and then the final details would be agreed between the Israeli government and the Christian communities which are primarily American evangelical churches.
The American Christian right, best known for television evangelism and its stars such as Mr Robertson and Jerry Falwell, has been among the strongest supporters of Israel in the US.
The primary reason is that according to the Old Testament, Israel was given to the Jews by God. Fundamentalist Christians believe that in order for Jesus to return, two preconditions are Jewish control of the land of Israel and the conversion of the Jews to Christianity.
Yossi Sarid, a former government minister and member of the Knesset, said he was wary of the friendship of the American Christian right and projects such as the Galilee centre. He said: I am not enthusiastic about this cooperation because I have no desire to be cannon fodder for the evangelists.
As a Jew, they believe I have to vanish before Jesus can make his second appearance. As I have no plans to convert, as an Israeli and a Jew, I find this a provocation. There is something sinister about their embrace.
Avraham Hirschson, the Israeli tourism minister, said: I'm not a theologian, I'm the minister of tourism, and I'm not interested in the politics of our tourists as long as they come here. They come here as tourists, and they're friends of Israel.
Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2006
Our economy is related to world economics
which IS part of foreign policy. Geez, can't get your head around that?
You related to Michael Moore? You twist
nm
The Federal Reserve is not government related....
nm
She made it seem as though religion is inappropriate on this board as related to politics (sm)
and that she was sick of hearing about religion. I am sick of hearing about racism.
My mom died of obesity-related diabetes. I hope we tax food out of
x
We are free to express whatever faith-related things we want over there, thanks for your input thoug
x
The whole country would crash and burn. Do you know how many jobs in Michigan alone are auto related
Michigan might as well hang a sign on the door saying last one out, turn out the lights. But then if Obama has his way, we won't have any electricity either because the coal companies will be bankrupted too. Domino effect in my opinion.
Any problem with 300,000 dead due to another lie?
Clinton lie: Shameful, tsk tsk.
Bush/Rove lies: Massive death and destruction and maiming, depleted uranium poisoning of an entire nation and generations to come, collapse of the only secular nation in the region which is now heading for a fundamentalist Islamic regime. We could go on for pages.
Now come on, get real. How can you even compare the two? It's just absurd. And none of this ooh you can't PROVE he lied! The proof was provided by the Downing Street memos if you want hard copy, and thousands of other sources if you'd just open your eyes and look at/hear them and use some common sense. Just look at where this war has gone for all the proof you need.
Sheez almighty, after what this administration has done to America and the rest of the world, and there are still people harping about Clinton's dirty little lie that harmed no one and would never have even been a public event if not for the entire frame-up for which the Wrong Right was responsible in the first place. You don't think they have their own dirty little secrets? Please. Their vendetta wasn't righteous, it was the highest form of stinking hypocrisy the American public has ever had forced down their throats.
pssst....two more words....BASE CLOSINGS. Remember when gutting the military was the battle scream of the day? Oooh, you hated him for that! What a scoundrel, presiding over a few base closures during peacetime (on schedule with the plan REAGAN devised, and argued for by Cheney).Now they tell you in the midst of the largest round of base closings ever in the history of America - during wartime!!! - that it's streamlining. It's all good. Just part of the Wrong Right legacy of telling you when to be enraged and when to smile and nod.
wishing you dead? Me?
Sweetie, I dont want anyone dead and I mourn the dead in the gulf due to our governments inactivity..I dont wish you dead, I wish no one dead..I want us all to be happy and one as a nation and world..I want happiness, I want peace, I want contentment..However, if you attack me personally, I most certainly will stand my ground..because I am not a fool.
2000 dead: How many is
2000 Dead: How Many Is Too Many?
By Mike Hoffman
When I left for the Middle East in February 2003 with a Marine artillery unit, I was told Iraq was in possession of weapons of mass destruction, had been assisting Al Qaeda, was partly responsible for 9/11 and was an imminent threat to the United States and Iraq’s neighbors.
We destroyed Iraq’s under-equipped and demoralized military – the imminent threat to our nation -- in a little over a month. Since the invasion, no weapons inspection team has found evidence of any weapons of mass destruction and the claims that Saddam Hussein was working with Al Qaeda have been shown to be nonsense. When I left Iraq for home in May 2003, after President Bush told us “Mission Accomplished,” 139 Americans had died.
After the invasion was over and the occupation began, Iraqis didn’t throw flowers and candy at our feet. Instead roadside bombs and ambushes awaited us down every street. The administration said we were about to turn a corner. We were told that once Saddam and his sons were captured or killed the insurgents would give up, demoralized by the loss of their leader; peace would reign. By the time Saddam was captured in December 2003, 463 Americans had died in Iraq.
The capture of Saddam had no effect, and daily attacks against American forces and Iraqi security forces continued. It was during this time that the bloody Shiite Rebellion occurred. This was some of the fiercest fighting yet in Iraq. Even with this rebellion happening, we were told there was still hope. Sovereignty would soon be handed over to the Iraqis and another corner would be turned. But we needed to stay and provide the Iraqis security until we could “officially” turn the country back over to them. This would empower the Iraqis and end the Insurgency. By then, June 2004, 958 had come home in boxes.
Most Iraqis didn’t seem to care they had sovereignty, since we still occupied their country. They were still without electricity and faced an average unemployment rate of 70%. Every time US soldiers walked outside the wire they were still taking their lives in their hands. Then, we were told, elections would fix this. The Iraqis would have their own government in place and begin drafting a constitution. This would demoralize the terrorists and end the fighting. On the day of the elections, January 30, 2005, the U.S. death toll was 1,537.
What’s wrong with this picture?
The first time we were told the war was over we had lost 139 American; now we have lost 2,000 American lives in Iraq. Time and time again we are told things are getting better, that we have “turned a corner.”
In the Viet Nam War we didn’t “turn corners;” instead policy makers talked about the “light at the end of the tunnel.” We know now that by 1968 President Johnson knew there was no light at the end of the tunnel; he knew his war was lost. The Pentagon Papers showed this; Robert McNamara admits it today. Over 22,000 American troops died in Viet Nam after 1968 in a war our leaders knew was hopeless and just piling up American and Asian bodies.
Again, there is no light at the end of the tunnel, and we’ve turned so many corners we’re going in circles. Our leaders know they can’t win this war, but, like Johnson and McNamara, they refuse to admit it to the American people. Meanwhile, our troops remain a huge provocative force in the region and each individual soldier a prized target. Failure to face this reality is exacerbating the current chaos in Iraq and preventing real regional diplomatic solutions.
So the question falls to ordinary Americans: How many more brave men and women are we willing to sacrifice before we force our leaders to bring the troops home? I pray that it does not take another 56,000 like it did in Viet Nam.
Mike Hoffman was a lance corporal in a Marine artillery unit during the invasion of Iraq. He is a member of Iraq Veterans Against The War.
Fox is #1 among the BRAIN DEAD
LOL - studies have proven FOX viewers to be significantly LESS informed about current events than ANY of the other networks (though they are all back)...
FOX tells the brain-dead WHAT THEY WANT to hear -
THEY DISTORT, YOU REPEAT.
Hey, I think I hear Bill O'LIEly calling you!
NOT DEAD, NOT COLD JUST
tired of watching you run around making up jobs for yourself and causes that you can't do anything about in a way that will cause change. Why are you so certain that our soldiers are bad? What makes you so sure those children will be victims of "war crimes?" Think about that for a moment. You must have a really low opinion of most American soldiers.
I have children and let me assure you that even were I dead or my husband dead and they were 12 and tried to kill others I would feel like they would have to be accountable for what they had done. That is because I brought them up to be accountable. They were when they were 12 and they are today.
My words may be unacceptable to you, but are acceptable to many others. I have to tell you that I am related to some of those people by marriage and they have no love for us, no appreciation of who we are, what we want, what we give, or anything about us. They want to control us and take what we have. The males OWN the children and OWN their wives and those children and wives better do what they are told and nothing you can do personally can change their viewpoint in a timely enough manner to make a difference.
Comparing our culture with theirs and what we would do and want is futile. You cannot even imagine the true depths of their hatred of us unless you are close to them, are related to them, or live with them. We have chosen not to associate with or speak with any of them because after 20 years of beating your head on a wall you tend to tire out and move along to something you can do that will work. I personally try to focus on things closer to home that I can and do work on, causes for which I can make a difference and which will not wear me out in the process. Sometimes after you have exhausted yourself, your ideas, and every avenue you can think of to effect change it is best to walk away if you want to have anything left of yourself.
There are dead beat
dads all over, white, black, hispanic, etc. Honestly, there are a lot of dead beat moms out there too.
One thing I don't get and maybe I don't get cause I'm white.....but Jesse Jackson made a comment about Obama not doing anything about blacks in prison. What the heck is Obama supposed to do? I mean....you do the crime.....you do the time. So what is it that Obama is supopsed to do here.....or anyone for that matter?
Dead-end dialog
The phrase "sending up a prayer" is not your exclusive property and no, that is not the cliche I was speaking of. Just another sign of how shallowing your thinking really is and how next to impossible it seems for you to "catch my drift." I am out of the business of trying to reach insult parity with you so forgive me if I skip over the rest of this garbage. No matter how hard you try, you cannot pass off insult for intelligence, so please don't waste your time or mine.
You are welcome for the infusion of new insults and verbal abuse. Your repertoire really was getting stale. Verbal abuse is not my strong suite, but unfortunately, it seems to be the only thing you are willing to respond to. Cerainly, the issues seem to be a big taboo.
No, I don't need to have the last word. Just trying to have a little fun but I have had enough of the mud bath for the time being. My condescending self is in need of something a little more productive and uplifting.
BTW, would you please try to resist the urge to plagiarize? A little bit of originality in thought and content would be a welcome surprise.
Off now in search of the job...and a little bit of substative conversation. This horse has been thrashed enough.
Later.
Ths is not my choice, but unfortunately,
Dead thread.
nm
Campaign was already dead. That's why
nm
How many dead-end bashes are you going
nm
What a talent, she was dead on. nm
.
It was not a dead end. The information was there...
you just chose to ignore it, because it was not flattering to Obama. Period.
tens of thousands dead
and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's and 1,744+ brave American soldiers are dead. So..lets see here..Saddam was responsible for killing thousands and Bush is responsible for killing tens of thousands.hmmm..hey, are Bush and Saddam brothers separated at birth..two fools with a thirst for blood? Seems like they are both war criminals. Saddam thumbs his nose at the world community and does what he wants..Bush thumbs his nose at the world community, the International Court of Justice and Geneva Convention and does what he wants..hmmm..they gotta be brothers, well, at least blood brothers.
Yes? Tell that to 40 million dead Jews. NM
and what about the dead in Uganda? The Sudan?
North Korea?
Oh, I forgot. THEY don't have oil.
and your board is dead most of the time anyway
You all can't discuss issues among yourselves, because you have no ideals. All of you are so different in your ideolgies that you don't even discuss amongst yourselves. You all have no glue, nothing to bond you together except...oh let's not forget the one thing is that you all hate Bush and conservatives. Other than that.nothing, zilch, nada. It's really amazing to see that the conservative board talks about human interest issues and other topics, but liberals, those who are supposed to be all about human issues and solving social problems seem to do nothing but bash, bash, bash. There's no problem solving going on in the democratic party nor is there any problem solving going on here. It's obvious to anyone who comes to these boards who are the most active politically and socially and that's the conservatives. We don't always agree about our president and some of us differ in ideals, but we have some set moral values that we go by, unlike you all where it's anything goes...so you all end up going no where.
If we are so dead and have no issues, what brings you here? sm
In the same boat eh?
The CON board is dead. No fighting going on there.
They need to fight like a fish needs water.
I used to be mad at them. Now I pity their poor, sad lives if the only pleasure they get is from trying to cause discomfort to others. Either way, they are unpleasant, tedious and offer nothing substantive, intelligent or worthwhile.
I say we ignore them and not even read their posts any more.
They're toxic.
Things are dead on both these boards
because posters who have any interest in rational debate have either been driven away or have easily found better places to go for discussion. Congratulations.
He's beating a dead horse.
Even Bush finally came clean and said there were none. That's when the *reason* for the war changed from WMDs to freeing the Iraqis (while ignoring bin Laden in Afghanistan).
I find it very, VERY interesting that his sudden *find* came less than 24 hours after PBS aired a very revealing show (*The Dark Side*) about the Iraq war, Bush, Tenet, Rumsfeld and Cheney, with the majority of the people interviewed being CIA agents, who generally had more than 20 years of service with the CIA, and they said some pretty shocking (but not too surprising) things about this whole war. (If you'd like to see this show, you can view it in its entirety on line by going to http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/; I'd personally recommend it.)
When it's all said and done, though, regardless of how many facts are presented, Santorum could have declared to the world that there's evidence that Saddam had SLINGSHOTS, and some unfortunate souls on these boards would still say, *See? We told you he had WMDs.* It's really difficult to even be upset, frustrated or angry with them any more. I just mostly feel sorry for them.
Rwanda, 800,000 dead in 100 days. sm
They pleaded for help from the UN and Clinton. No one helped them.
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