And as to socialized medicine leading to a socialized country....
Posted By: Observer on 2007-10-26
In Reply to: First of all...please do not classify my statements as ignorant... - Observer
it has to start somewhere, piglet. It has already started in this country with all the entitlements. Adding health care is one more nail in the proverbial coffin. And as you seek to move entitlements further and further up the income ladder, you create a wider disparity and destroy the middle class. That is how it starts. That is how it started everywhere. A good idea gone bad, just like so many others. The more power you place in one area, and the more choice you take away from the "people" the closer you get. It looks good to start. Then pretty soon the government starts to control businesses, so that eventually everyone "works for the government." When people begin to wake up and realize what is going on...and start to protest it or try to bring it into the light...then the government starts to control media (aka Chavez shutting down a TV station). It is not a leap. It is a slow, malicious process. Socialist Germany started out that way. Germans thought it was great, and it was, until Hitler rose to power. Then it was too late. When you concentrate too much power over the everyday lives of the people and make them dependent upon the state for the necessities...we are already headed that way with people dependent for income, and now you want them to be depenent for health care as well. What's next, Piglet? You tell me.
I have lived to see enough "that would never happens" that DID happen to know. And if you will read history, you will see that what I have said is borne out. In a person's desire to have everything provided for them, every time that happens, control is relinquished to the government. That is where it starts.
Complete Discussion Below:  marks the location of current message within thread
The messages you are viewing
are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select
the boards given in left menu
Other related messages found in our database
Nobody is saying socialized medicine
they are saying set up an insurance program that we would still have to pay for!
Obama is not going for socialized medicine -
Obama's plan just involves making sure affordable insurance is available for everyone. He is not mandating that you all use government hospitals or government sponsored clinics. He is saying that he wants insurance for every person in America.
Under the socialized medicine system........sm
which is basically what Obama is pushing for, you might get some health care, but I sure hope you don't need a hip replacement or other specialized care. Just ask our neighbors to the north how long they have to wait for a hip replacement.
Brian Day, former president of the Canadian Medical Association, remarked that Canada "is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two to three years."
Medicines will be rationed and forget about getting treatment for pesky things like cancer if you are over a certain age or have other comorbid conditions.
Anyone who thinks that socialized medicine is a good idea
should try out military medicine for awhile and see how it goes!
socialized firefighting in ca
I think Libby meant her/his post as tongue in cheek. Obviously Bush had nothing to do with the fires. My post about socialized firefighting is the truth. The govt pays for firefighting in CA. It is a govt job. CA could never exist with volunteer firefighters like in some parts of the USA.
Socialized health care = semantics...
what it boils down to is, when you have the federal government start administering all health care, quality of care will go down, not up, and access to care will be even more difficult. You cited Medicare and Medicaid...both rife with waste and fraud. We read about it every other day. The VA system for soldiers is federally run...tell me how well THAT is working, and that is not for every person in the US. I would like a poll of rank and file Canadians...I would like to know what individuals think of their health system. The only one I saw quoted said 55% of his paycheck is taken off the top for taxes, and a large part of that is what funds the health care system. There ARE waiting lists for operations. And even if you have the money privately to pay for your own operation if time constraint is involved, you are NOT allowed to jump the "list." That is why many Canadians cross the border for emergent care and surgery. Just a couple of weeks ago there was the story of the two women with high-risk pregnancies who could not be hospitalized because there was nowhere to put them. They ended up in Seattle.
So no thanks. I would much rather have a full cost of premiums tax refund, which is what some have proposed. Yeah, you will still have to cough up the premiums for a year, but then if you take your refund at the end of the year and put it in the bank...voila. There are your premiums for the next year. And we can keep the quality of care we have and the access we have.
That would be my choice, far, far ahead of any kind of federal government subsidized and administered health care...which is what Hillary is proposing, only calling it "universal" instead of socialized. Same difference.
I'm smart enough to know who is leading
smart enough to read an electoral map, smart enough to recognize the #1 campaign issue, smart enough to know that only losers will ignore the ecoomic meltdowm, and smart enough to give O my vote.
Yes, but Obama was leading more than the margin of error....
he has lost that, and McCain has been on top, with the margin of error...for several days now. Nice try, but no cigar. The polls have shifted. And Rasmussen is still creeping up. Obama had a pretty sizeable lead and that has been eaten up. He is not back to where he was, and McCain continues to inch up.
And I believe you said Obama was ahead in the polls. He isn't. Nice try.
And no I don't agree that the military poll is an accurate indicator of the military vote. I think it is indicative of a poll being pointed at deployed soldiers who are disenchanted with the current administration. It did not poll any veterans living here in the US and it did not poll Iraq veterans who have returned home. And with the huge amount of deployed soldiers is minute at best.
Nice try at the smoke screen, tho.
All that being said...polls are what they are, and can change daily. What is remarkable in this the big shift in Independents and unaffiliated voters moving toward McCain from Obama.
We will just have to see how it all pans out in coming days.
She didn't have to be leading going into the final round to win, obviously!
There wouldn't be much point in the final round otherwise, would there? All five contestants in the final round are there because they have high enough scores that any of them can win.
This taste of your own medicine has been
nm
Is it time for your medicine?
su
I hear a lot about medicine....(sm)
but that doesn't make me a doctor, and I certainly would not try to treat a patient. The whole idea of reporting the news is just that....reporting....as opposed to making the news.
Can someone please explain to me the "socialized medicine"?
What do you mean about socialized medicine that Obama wants?
I understand your view of 'socalized' medicine
I have heard the horror stories from people from Canada, so you'll get no argument from me there.
When you have group coverage through an employer, they cannot deny you. However, I have found that some still require you to wait out the pre-existing condition time period (usually 12 months). As most employers require full-time for insurance benefits, you HAVE to work full time for this.
If you are trying to get individual health insurance on your own, I found out the hard way that they can absolutely deny you. (I did not know that, I was naive I guess and thought that they could use the pre-existing condition clause, but I never knew they could flat out deny you). That is the problem I have - that people can be totally denied. I have no problem paying for insurance for 12 months while the bills continue to rack up because they're not covered, I understand that it's business. However, I don't think they should be able to deny people based on a condition or illness (isn't that descrimination?) I think the insurance companies should have some limits on what they are allowed to do, such as denying coverage.
There are also other issues with the insurance company essentially dictating patient care, but it's getting late and I'm sleepy! :) Thanks for explaining your view!
No. I love the country side in Alabama...I'm a country girl...nm
Yes killing this country - have you been out of the country the last 3 months or so
Don't you have a clue as to what is happening in America? Where have you been? Don't you listen to what is happening or are you still drinking the kool-aid. That time is over. Put the aid down and wake up. The country is being destroyed. These have been the worst 4 months in the history of bad presidents. Foreclosures are on the rise, unemployment is on the rise, 3+ trillion more in deficit and on the rise, companies shutting down, Clinton for SoS. Napolitano - one of the biggest tragedies to happen to America. The list goes on and on and on and on.
Dubya is not in office anymore. You think dubya "pulled the trigger", well the O keeps reloading it and continues to pull the trigger.
this country
Please remember this country and its founding Christian principles were legislated by slave-owners, a practice that was condoned for another 100 years in this country, along with the near-annihilation of this country's indigenous peoples.
The past may not be as rosy as you might paint it to be.
Well, I don't think this country had anything to do with it....
and I don't think Musharraf himself had anything to do with it. That is not to say that radicals within the intelligence services of Pakistan did not have a hand in it. The way it was done, they probably did. With the goal in mind of stopping the elections and causing destabilization...and perhaps a chance to get their hands on nukes, that we all know Pakistan has. Nukes ready to use.
This is a very scary event, folks. Not just for Pakistan...for the world.
Just as an aside....if you really look at what is going on in this country....
Ron Paul is more of a threat than you think. Evangelical Christians want someone pro-life and they are not going to get it with Guiliani...and whether you believe it or not, there are a LOT of them out there. And a lot of young people are looking at Paul, and that is young people on BOTH sides of the political spectrum. And in most all issues, Ron Paul is a strict conservative. And a lot of people out there are VERY sick of tax and spend...even a lot of Democrats...hence the Congress approval rating LESS than Bush's. There is a ground swell going on out there that could very well take over and tsunami the Dem candidate...and if the candidate is Hillary I would be willing to BET it will happen. Your worst nightmare realized. A true conservative in the White House and a Congress to help him turn things around. The purse strings are sure to really tighten (which is what I meant by gravy train about to end...by that I meant the endless tax and spend tax and spend).
Almost makes one giddy thinking about it.
I myself have a couple of real problems with Ron Paul...however...I could get behind him easier than I could Guiliani and so could a LOT of conservatives out there. So....I wouldn't be trashing Ron Paul and hawking that split the vote thing too loud...it could come back to bite you.
Have a good day!
country first
Theme of RNC. Sarah Palin was member of a group who advocated Alaska seceding from United States. Who first? Wno on second?
How are you get along with a country...
run by a man who calls for the annihilation of another country? As Ahmadinejad has said ad nauseam. Sure Mahmoud, let's sit down and talk about obliterating Israel. And that pesky little Death To America slogan...we need to talk about that. Have some tea.
Probably do everything they can to keep this country
from going to h*ll in a hand basket!!!!!
but it's okay with me if the country
x
If we had done to their country
We would have been in jail. Can you imagine going to a foreign country, standing on a corner until you got a job, sending your kids to school even though they did not speak the language and expecting to be accommodated, buying a house, car, getting a foreign credit card, not paying taxes, sending the money out of the country, and then trying to say you had rights to citizenship? It really boggles my mind when I think about it. And in my neighborhood we just loved and accepted everyone who came and were gracious and generous. I even took Spanish classes so I could speak to my neighbors. Then they left. They lost their jobs and they lost their homes and they left. The whole neighborhood is devastated, the school closed down and the houses are all empty. The really funny thing is to even get a job for awhile in my area, you had to be able to speak Spanish! What can you say, but that is absolutely insane!
What are you saying here? It's their country
Heads down? What does that mean? This transition is inevitable and I do not see anything wrong with the Iraqis expecting troops to live by the rule of law...their law. Iraqi is a sovereign nation, not an occupied territory (illegal by international standards).
I think everyone in THIS country should take off their
Just saw the video. Cracked me up.
You mean OUR country, don't you?
You may not be ashamed of America, but your love-it-or-leave-it attitude brings shame down on you. Country of diversity. Deal with it.
Please name one country---
Please give me the name of one nation in the history of humankind that grew great on the basis of 'gee, you like me, you reall, really like me.'
I don't think it's a good thing at all to have a pu$$isifed president apologizing for America. He's a weakling, and our country is not safe.
Do you remember the hostages in Iran? Do you remamber how long they were locked up by those monsters?
And the instant we elected a strong leader (Reagan) we got them home. Now we're getting the reverse effect. We've just become the world's byotch.
What's Obama going to do when he's faced with the next attack? Besides blaming Bush once again, I mean.
Country First??
So in the midst of an economic crisis that McCain never understood ("the economy is not my strong point"), he figures now is a good time to exploit the recession and collect email addresses and raise campaign money. That's what his Country First PAC is about.
He also laments "...partisanship driving our attempts to turn the economy around..." How can he say this with a straight face? Which party is engaging in partisanship with regards to the stimulus bill? Hint: it ain't Democrats.
And what's McCain's alternative? Payroll tax cuts? That's gonna turn our economy around? Please. The guy offers nothing else except the attitude that if the Democrats want it, it has to be bad. This is from a guy who lost the election in a landslide and was totally out of touch with the vast majority of the American people.
At least if you're gonna sign his petition, do try to find out what's actually in the bill.
our country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olT35FXhU2c
our country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAzbMqwr-J8&feature=related
our country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioKhEEypth0
our country
Anti-patriotism is the ideology that opposes patriotism; it usually refers to those with cosmopolitan views and is usually of an anti-nationalist nature as well. Normally, anti-patriotism stems from the belief that patriotism is wrong since it forces people born in a country, whether they like it or not, regardless of their individuality, to love the country or sacrifice themselves for it
our country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWeZ5SKXvj8&feature=related
Keep it up. This is why our country is going
nm
Yes we can...fuc& the country over and have everyone behind us!
**
Which is exactly why our country is the way it is
The whole -if it feels good, do it- mentality has put our society right down the crapper and opened the door for gay marriages and who knows what else can be far behind.
Yes, I am. I have never seen our country
in such turmoil. If they keep it up, we won't be a super power country much longer, only a weak nation like the poorer middle east countries and indonesia with no power or say on what happens to us.
WAKE UP AMERICA!
Thank God someone in this country still
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=572106
Everything is not fine in our country
... but I will put my flag up on the 4th of July.
I find it so sad that our country is so very divided and the ugliness and meaness has come out of everyone's mouths.
It seems that some of it is the religious versus the nonreligious, the gay and the hetero, our way or no way..
no matter who is president, we are all equal and should all be treated wiht respect.
Peace.
We have had several posters here from out of this country.
They were dispatched post haste by the people on this board because they did not espouse their views.
Country's problems...
We will have to agree to disagree on some things. But is nice to know that we also agree on some things. One more step toward the unity that this country SO desperately needs. We need that feeling we all had the morning of 9-11...not the horror, but the unity standing shoulder to shoulder that no matter what, we were Americans and we would stand together. We need that back, and we should not need a national disaster to get it back. But I digress. I don't think we can blame this country's problems on Bush. Most of them are long-standing, where there when he took office and will be there when he leaves. That is because Congress never goes to Washington and does the work of the people. They are the body with the power to change things. They just don't have the guts to do it. And, frankly, the base of the Democratic party has gone so far left I don't even recognize it anymore. But again I digress.
As to people formerly in the petroleum industry....Bush is from Texas. You can't throw a rock in Texas without hitting someone in the petroleum industry. Same for my home state, Oklahoma. I don't think being in the petroleum industry qualifies you as causing the nation's problems.
I don't know how you can profess, with all due respect, to know someone's heart. One of the things I believe about Bush is that he DOES care about the American people, and he demonstrates that by trying to stop things he thinks will be detrimental to them. Kinda like a parent and a child...you can't give them EVERYthing they want, because it would not be good for them. I do not think it is "I do what I want" at all. He just does not cave to every political wind that blows....he doesn't pander...and that makes him stand out from all the panderers in Washington. Taking a firm stand against the political wind is NEVER a popular stand to take. I for one am glad he has the courage to do so. That being said, I don't agree with every decision he has ever made, and I doubt I will ever agree with every decision any President makes. However, he was one of the few I saw break down and cry over 9-11. And he is also the man who held this country together after that horrible disaster. We looked to him to be strong and decisive, and he was. I will always admire him for that. Always. Again, doesn't mean I agree with everything he has said or done. But I am still able to see the good things he did and is still trying to do. I remember the picture of he and the daughter of that woman killed on 9-11, and the tears in his eyes...and I have seen how much he has aged since 9-11. You will never convince me that that man does not care about the American people. I never saw Clinton cry. I never saw not one congressman or woman cry. I have never seen a President engage the common American the way Bush has...I had the distinct pleasure to be at a speech he gave and much to the extreme displeasure of his Secret Service people, he goes right up very close to crowds where it could be very dangerous for him...and engages the people. He did it in Louisianna and Mississippi after Katrina. If you talk to the people he sat on the porches with, they will tell you that he has a heart. He also put a sizeable chunk of his own money into Katrina relief. He didn't have to do that. But he did. Nope, you will never convince me that George Bush does not care about his fellow Americans. Sometimes caring carries the responsibility of making the hard decisions, even if they are unpopular ones. And I have to admire him for that too. None before him have semeed willing to do that...if it meant danger to their political future, they will sway with every wind that blows. It is THAT kind of person whose care for fellow Americans concerns me.
God bless!
You seriously, seriously need to move out of the country sm
with that way of thinking because I EARN my money, GREW UP ON WELFARE and absolutely refuse to be poor! I work my DAM* A** off every single day and those so called people you keep saying "need our help" with the use of my tax money can get a job just like I can.
I was also diagnosed with dyslexia while in grade school and that didn't stop me from living the American Dream.
Yes, I am a conservative because I don't want my hard-earned money to pay for those who can help themselves. And guess what??I don't even listen to Rush or Glen Beck, OR watch Oprah! I don't like any of those people! I like my freedom to earn my own money, buy my OWN health insurance and don't want Hillary, Obama, or even another Republican telling me that MY money should go to pay for YOUR NATIONAL HEALTHCARE PLAN!
I want my govt to protect me and my family, not pay for the woman down the street with no job on welfare or even pay for her kids health insurance. I have 3 kids myself. How come I can do it with my diagnosis and she can't??
I have an even grander idea. Why don't you, and all of your liberal friends who want to pay for national healthcare of GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS cut Uncle Sam a check every 2 weeks to pay for these programs and let me use my money to do with what I please......
I think the entire country knows how old he is...
I think they use the picture of him in his uniform to underscore his military service...which I don't think hurts his cause but helps it, in this world we live in now.
As to his mind...that is kind of a cheap shot, don't you think? I haven't seen any evidence of an unsound mind. Obama is not "old" but take him away from a teleprompter or a planned statement and he stumbles and stutters with the best of them...just trying to be fair here.
You must live in another country! Sorry, but the
I was better off, made more money, paid lower taxes, and had more job security during the Clinton Administration than now. Same with all my MT friends & co-workers.
Apparently, so does more than 1/2 the country.
nm
Not when the rest of the country = 61%
mm
Our country is definitely divided.
He11....just look at this board. LOL!
I think it took a lot of guts for her to come out and say she was supporting McCain. I saw part of her interview this morning and she gave a great interview. She was very well spoken and said a lot of good things.
At least he knows how many states are in the country..
he is running to be President of. Hee hee.
This country is in such trouble.
I will not vote for someone who wants to create more government assisted programs. We are in deep crap now because of government spending. That will only make our economy worse. All of our money will be put into government programs, the spending will go up instead of down, and all the money we dish out in taxes to pay for all of this crap will most definitely not go towards our deficit. It will only get bigger than it is now and it is HUGE right now. There is no way that Obama can only go after rich people and tax them more. It still wouldn't be enough to pay for all these "plans" he has. God help us!
NOBAMA!!!
Actually, the founders of this country
were very radical. Just the very fact they went against Great Britain was radical. Don't you think dressing up as Indians and then throwing tea into the Boston Harbor was not radical? Yep, this country was founded by radicalism. Sorry to burst your bubble about radicalism. Radical, radical, radical.
|
