Home     Contact Us    
Main Board Job Seeker's Board Job Wanted Board Resume Bank Company Board Word Help Medquist New MTs Classifieds Offshore Concerns VR/Speech Recognition Tech Help Coding/Medical Billing
Gab Board Politics Comedy Stop Health Issues
ADVERTISEMENT




Serving Over 20,000 US Medical Transcriptionists

Already been discussed on both boards. Catch up. nm

Posted By: sm on 2006-02-08
In Reply to: pssst...you're both wrong, too bad. - MTRE

x


Complete Discussion Below: marks the location of current message within thread

The messages you are viewing are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select the boards given in left menu


Other related messages found in our database

Why is this being discussed?
This happened a long time ago. Is the point to make one party look bad and the other good? That is silly. Both parties at some point or another have made horrible decisions. Maybe I'm PMSing and emotional, but I'm a little offended by this thread. I certainly was not alive to vote those people into Congress, therefore why should I be 'punished' for something they did before I was even born. The whole thing is just very inflammatory. Why don't we discuss things that are in the present that we have some say over? Observer, I usually defend you at least a little, but you took this discussion to a hurtful place. That is an ugly time in our history and to make it sound like Democrats are responsible for it, or at least were the only ones who wanted it to continue, is very offensive. I know everyone will probably say that Bush bashing is hurtful, and maybe it is, but that is something that is happening currently that we have a right to discuss. We have the ability to vote in regards to these issues that are happening NOW.
As this has already been discussed
I will not revisit any of the existing arguments from the other thread. I just want to point out that Obama will not be king able to make a decree on whim. A program like this, if it truly is like some are interpreting it, would have to be passed by Congress and would probably take years to implement if it did, which is doubtful. Besides, I sincerely doubt that the Dems will hold the majority at the midterm elections. I would suggest that any who are concerned about this take gourdpainter's advice posted above.
This was discussed below.

I think it is just plain sad really.  If you are white, you don't qualify for a job.  If you are highly skilled, you don't qualify.  Why wouldn't you want highly skilled people?  That is just plain retarded right there.  Things are bad enough right now that all people, including all races, are losing jobs and highly skilled people are losing jobs.  Why should they be not included in this opportunity?  Sounds to me like they would prefer to have unskilled minorities build stuff than highly skilled individuals.  To me that suggests p*ss poor work being done and very poor management...but whatever. 


Then again....we've always sort of had this problem.  Companies have a certain quota of minorities they have to hire and often pick a minority with less skill and qualifications over someone who is skilled just to meet their quota of hiring minorities.  So what is the point of being skilled?  Once again....the dumbing down of America right there.


This is the experience currently being discussed.
Before answering the question, please read the following. This is posted in response to pub spin that would assert SP is better qualified to lead the country because of O's lack of experience. Of special note are the numerous foreign relations committee diplomatic initiatives listed below. Of course, I would be interested in any comparabl experience SP may have that the pubs can produce. I have saved this post and will be using it in reply to any similar assertions made by pubs in the future whenever I encounter them. Hope format is not too seedy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Senate_career_of_Barack_Obama
In Illinois senate O Worked to get BIPARTISAN support on legislation on:
1. Ethics reform.
2. Health care reform.
3. Sponsored bills for earned income tax credits for low-income workers.
4. Provisions for $100 million in tax cuts to families.
5. Provisions for early childhood education.
6. Welfare reform.
7. Childcare subsidies.
8. Funding for churches and community groups.
9. Chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee.
10. Instituted requirement for transparent videotaped police interrogations of suspects in capitol cases after a number of death row inmates were found innocent.
11. Measures against racial profiling.
12. Campaign finance reform.
13. Restrictions on lobbyists activities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_career_of_Barack_Obama
In US Senate:
1. Senate Committee (SC) on Foreign Relations.
2. SC on Health.
3. SC on Health.
4. SC on Labor and Pensions.
5. SC on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.
6. SC on Veterans' Affairs.
7. Member of Congressional Black Caucus.
8. Chairman of the Subcommitte on European Affairs.
9. Border security and Immigration reform. Cosponsor "Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act introduced by JM.
10. Added 3 amendments to the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act.
11. Supported Secure Fence Act for security improvements along US-Mexico border.
12. Cosponsored Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006.
13. Introduced expansions to Cooperative Threat Reduction Program to secure and dismantle weapons of mass destruction and their associated infrastructure in former Soviet Union states.
14. Sponsor of Democratic Republic of Congo Relief, Security and Democracy Promotion Act, signed by Bush, to restore basic services like clinics and schools, train a professional, integrated and accountable police force and military, and otherwise support the Congolese in protecting their human rights and rebuilding their nation.
15. As member of Foreign Relations Committee, he made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East and Africa. His 2005 trip to Russia, Ukraine and Azerbaijan focus on strategy planning for the control of world's supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons and WMDs and defense against potential terrorist attacks.
16. January 2006, met with US military in Kuwait and Iraq. Visited Jordan, Israel and Palestinian territories. Asserted preconditions that US will never recognize legitimacy of Hamas leadership until they renounce elimination of Israel.
17. August 2006, official trip to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad where he made televised appearance addressing ethnic rivalries and corruption in Kenya.
18. Worked on Honest Leadership and Open Government Act, signed into law, to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions.
19. Cosponsored bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections to include fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls.
20. Cosponsored climate change bill to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by two-thirds by 2050.
21. Promoted liquefied coal production of gas and diesel.
22. Introduced Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007 to cap troop levels as prelude to phased troop withdrawal and removal of all combat brigades.
23. Cosponsored amendment to Defense Authorization Act safeguarding personality disorder military discharges.
24. Sponsored Iran Sanctions Enabling Act in support of divestment of state pensions funds from Iran's oil and gas industry.
25. Introduced legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism., provisions of which were added as amendments to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.
26. Sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance program providing one-year job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries, which passed both houses of Congress with bipartisan support but was ultimately vetoed by fearless George.

It is so ridiculous that this is still being discussed.
nm
We discussed the same issue...
he is just another man elected to be president who just happens to be half black. Big deal. Also, for the state of the economy, there is certainly a lot of money being spent for this charade. A low key celebration would be fine, not the 150 million dollar price tag we are footing some of the bill for. He will never live up to the hype he has generated. The bloom will be off the rose before long and we will have a front row seat for the further decline of our economy, not to mention the terrorists who are anxiously awaiting an Obama administration.
No - martial law discussed 9/18/09 - under Bush...

Sept.18: Congressional Leaders told US Economy Had Been Hours Away from Collapse





A stunning video has surfaced of Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-PA) describing Thursday September 18 when Bernanke and Paulson starkly informed Congressional leaders how close the economy had come to collapsing that day.


After $550 billion had been electronically drawn out of money market accounts and $105 billion had been poured back into the system with no effect, the Federal Reserve and the Treasury made the decision to shut down the money market accounts and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account.

Rep. Kanjorski:

If they had not done that their estimation was that by two o'clock that afternoon, $5.5 trillion would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States, and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed.

It would have been the end of our economic system and our political system as we know it. [via Magnifico at Daily Kos]

Again via Magnifico, The Motley Fool adds some background as well as a possible connection to martial law in The One Jaw Dropping Video that Every Fool Must See. Both Sen. Inhofe, R-Okla., and Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Calif claim that Paulson brought up the possibility of a declaration of martial law.


The same article also revealed that a November 2008 Army War College Report discusses the possible use of the US military in the event of a domestic economic collapse.


Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security. Deliberate employment of weapons of mass destruction or other catastrophic capabilities, unforeseen economic collapse... are all paths to disruptive domestic shock. [p.32]
Support for Kanjorski's claims can be found in archives from that time period:

Congressional Leaders Stunned by Warnings
, NY Times, Sept. 19, 2008.

...as the Fed chairman, Ben S. Bernanke, laid out the potentially devastating ramifications of the financial crisis before congressional leaders on Thursday night, there was a stunned silence at first. Mr. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. had made an urgent and unusual evening visit to Capitol Hill...

Rushing to save money-market funds, CNN Money, Sept. 19, 2008


By Friday, federal officials worried that the strain on money-market funds had become too great and threatened the world's financial system.

As an aside, if all of this happened on Thursday, Sept. 18, why in the world did McCain wait until the last minute on the 24th to cancel his interview with David Letterman?


No - martial law discussed 9/18/08 - under Bush...

Sept.18: Congressional Leaders told US Economy Had Been Hours Away from Collapse





A stunning video has surfaced of Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-PA) describing Thursday September 18 when Bernanke and Paulson starkly informed Congressional leaders how close the economy had come to collapsing that day.


After $550 billion had been electronically drawn out of money market accounts and $105 billion had been poured back into the system with no effect, the Federal Reserve and the Treasury made the decision to shut down the money market accounts and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account.

Rep. Kanjorski:

If they had not done that their estimation was that by two o'clock that afternoon, $5.5 trillion would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States, and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed.

It would have been the end of our economic system and our political system as we know it. [via Magnifico at Daily Kos]

Again via Magnifico, The Motley Fool adds some background as well as a possible connection to martial law in The One Jaw Dropping Video that Every Fool Must See. Both Sen. Inhofe, R-Okla., and Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Calif claim that Paulson brought up the possibility of a declaration of martial law.


The same article also revealed that a November 2008 Army War College Report discusses the possible use of the US military in the event of a domestic economic collapse.


Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security. Deliberate employment of weapons of mass destruction or other catastrophic capabilities, unforeseen economic collapse... are all paths to disruptive domestic shock. [p.32]
Support for Kanjorski's claims can be found in archives from that time period:

Congressional Leaders Stunned by Warnings
, NY Times, Sept. 19, 2008.

...as the Fed chairman, Ben S. Bernanke, laid out the potentially devastating ramifications of the financial crisis before congressional leaders on Thursday night, there was a stunned silence at first. Mr. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. had made an urgent and unusual evening visit to Capitol Hill...

Rushing to save money-market funds, CNN Money, Sept. 19, 2008


By Friday, federal officials worried that the strain on money-market funds had become too great and threatened the world's financial system.

As an aside, if all of this happened on Thursday, Sept. 18, why in the world did McCain wait until the last minute on the 24th to cancel his interview with David Letterman?


Yes, but it was not going to be discussed and your pictures posted on the internet...
for the entire country to see and discuss. Her privacy, which she is entitled to as a 16-year-old, has been invaded in a very nasty way. Sorry, that is the way I feel about it. I think it was terribly wrong for dailykrap to post it and terribly wrong for someone to spread it even further here. But that is just me.
as part of a phased withdrawal, discussed with and
There is a specified end sight as posted on O's website for those who are interested in fact over fiction. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/#phased-withdrawal

Excuse me. Clearly, the women, children, babies and elders in that video posed no immediate threat to US troops there. No need for pudit expert analysis on that one.
Obama actually does differ on McCain in his Afghanistan plan, especially when it comes to more precise targeting (like OBL, to name one instance) and measures that would protect and spare civilian populations from blanket bombing of entire villages to "flush out" a half dozen "known" Taliban.
Diplomacy has not been tried with Taliban or any other theocratic leadership in view of the "we don't negotiate with terrorist" W dogma...that is, of course, until recently when he decided to flip to the O side of diplomatic policy and explore the idea of establishing an American "Interests" Section in Tehran.

You cannot possibly pretend to know what sort of progress can be made under leadership guided by a president who has the kind of insight O has into Islamic cultures until those initiatives are explored. What is apparent from that video is that ANY and ALL efforts should be undertaken to succeed in disarming terrorist arsenals AND appeal and that measures should be undertaken to prevent the slaughter of women, children, babies and old men.

O has very clearly articulated his approach and policies on diplomacy on his website, which have been available since the day he launched his campaign. Show me the McCain plan for diplomacy. Don't just claim he "knows what he is doing" because he knows his way around a battlefield. Show me the plan. I will not address the rest of the post because it reflects all that tired out politics of fear warmongering rhetoric that 80% of the nation has clearly indicated it no longer buys into.
yeah, when religion is discussed, it is the left
nm
This was all discussed ad nauseum in this morning's thread.
he said it before the election? I am not going to spend my time repeating verbatim the information that is sitting immediately under this thread. No one, including the MILLIONS of your fellow citizens who support the closing of Gitmo, thought it was going to be easy, but it IS going to be done, not by finding another way, but by doing it the way Obama has already put into action.

BTW, sodiers have been speaking up against the govt for quite some time now...in fact, for years before Obama ever took office. Ever heard of the Winter Soldiers?
Enter the elephant in the room not beind discussed
Under the Obama administration, reform in trade agreements, incentives to keep jobs stateside and targets plans to make it easier to unionize will be changing that picture. Pubs have lost this grip, no matter how loud they protest, how many GOP alert memos they send or how hard they pretend otherwise. Look for the unions to make a long overdue comeback. Then we shall see just how outdated they are.
catch - you know what I mean -

Iraq's Catch 22

Came across this earlier ~ My sentiments from another's pen.  Found on the Independent's web site.


Catch 22 in Iraq
Why American Troops Can’t Go Home


by Michael Schwartz


Every week or so, the Department of Defense conducts a video-conference press briefing for reporters in Washington, featuring an on-the-ground officer in Iraq. On November 15th, that briefing was with Col. Jeffrey Bannister, commander of the Second Brigade of the Second Infantry Division. He was chosen because of his unit’s successful application of surge tactics in three mainly Shia districts in eastern Baghdad. He had, among other things, set up several outposts in these districts offering a 24-hour American military presence; he had also made generous use of transportable concrete walls meant to separate and partition neighborhoods, and had established numerous checkpoints to prevent unauthorized entry or exit from these communities.


As Col. Bannister summed up the situation:



“We have been effective, and we’ve seen violence significantly reduced as our Iraqi security forces have taken a larger role in all aspects of operations, and we are starting to see harmony between Sunni and Shi’a alike.”


The briefing seemed uneventful — very much a reflection of the ongoing mood of the moment among American commanders in Iraq — and received no significant media coverage. However, there was news lurking in an answer Col. Bannister gave to a question from AP reporter Pauline Jelinek (about arming volunteer local citizens to patrol their neighborhoods), even if it passed unnoticed. The colonel made a remarkable reference to an unexplained “five-year plan” that, he indicated, was guiding his actions. Here was his answer in full:



“I mean, right now we’re focused just on security augmentation [by the volunteers] and growing them to be Iraqi police because that is where the gap is that we’re trying to help fill capacity for in the Iraqi security forces. The army and the national police, I mean, they’re fine. The Iraqi police is — you know, the five-year plan has — you know, it’s doubling in size. … [We expect to have] 4,000 Iraqi police on our side over the five-year plan.


“So that’s kind of what we’re doing. We’re helping on security now, growing them into IP [Iraqi police]…. They’ll have 650 slots that I fill in March, and over the five-year period we’ll grow up to another 2,500 or 3,500.


Most astonishing in his comments is the least astonishing word in our language: “the.” Colonel Bannister refers repeatedly to “the five-year plan,” assuming his audience understands that there is indeed a master plan for his unit — and for the American occupation — mandating a slow, many-year buildup of neighborhood-protection forces into full fledged police units. This, in turn, is all part of an even larger plan for the conduct of the occupation.


Included in this implicit understanding is the further assumption that Col. Bannister’s unit, or some future replacement unit, will be occupying these areas of eastern Baghdad for that five-year period until that 4,000 man police force is finally fully developed.


Staying the Course, Any Course


A recent Washington Post political cartoon by Tom Toles captured the irony and tragedy of this “five-year plan.” A big sign on the White House lawn has the message “We can’t leave Iraq because it’s going…” and a workman is adjusting a dial from “Badly” to “Well.”


This cartoon raises the relevant question: If things are “going well” in Iraq, then why aren’t American troops being withdrawn? This is a point raised persuasively by Robert Dreyfuss in a recent Tomdispatch post in which he argues that the decline in three major forms of violence (car bombs, death-squad executions, and roadside IEDs) should be the occasion for a reduction, and then withdrawal, of the American military presence. But, as Dreyfuss notes, the Bush administration has no intention of organizing such a withdrawal; nor, it seems, does the Democratic Party leadership — as indicated by their refusal to withhold funding for the war, and by the promises of the leading presidential candidates to maintain significant levels of American troops in Iraq, at least through any first term in office.


The question that emerges is why stay this course? If violence has been reduced by more than 50%, why not begin to withdraw significant numbers of troops in preparation for a complete withdrawal? The answer can be stated simply: A reduction in the violence does not mean that things are “going well,” only that they are going “less badly.”


You can tell things can’t be going well if your best-case plan is for an armed occupation force to remain in a major Baghdad community for the next five years. It means that the underlying causes of disorder are not being addressed. You can tell things are not going well if five more years are needed to train and activate a local police force, when police training takes about six months. (Consider this an indication that the recruits exhibit loyalties and goals that run contrary to those of the American military.) You can tell things are not going well when communities have to be surrounded by cement walls and checkpoints that naturally disrupt normal life, including work, school, and daily shopping. These are all signs that escalating discontent and protest may require new suppressive actions in the not-so-distant future.


The American military is well aware of this. They keep reminding us that the present decline in violence may be temporary, nothing more than a brief window of opportunity that could be used to resolve some of the “political problems” facing Iraq before the violence can be reinvigorated. The current surge — even “the five year plan” — is not designed to solve Iraq’s problems, just to hold down the violence while others, in theory, act.


What Does the Bush Administration Want in Iraq?


What are the political problems that require resolution? The typical mainstream media version of these problems makes them out to be uniquely Iraqi in nature. They stem — so the story goes — from deeply engrained friction among Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds, frustrating all efforts to resolve matters like the distribution of political power and oil revenues. In this version, the Americans are (usually inept) mediators in Iraqi disputes and are fated to remain in Iraq only because the Bush administration has little choice but to establish relatively peaceful and equitable solutions to these disputes before seriously considering leaving.


By now, however, most of us realize that there is much more to the American purpose in Iraq than a commitment to an elected government in Baghdad that could peacefully resolve sectarian tensions. The rhetoric of the Bush administration and its chief democratic opponents (most notably Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama) is increasingly laced with references — to quote Clinton — to “vital national security interests” in the Middle East that will require a continuing “military as well as political mission.” In Iraq, leading Washington politicians of both parties agree on the necessity of establishing a friendly government that will welcome the presence of a “residual” American military force, oppose Iran’s regional aspirations, and prevent the country from becoming “a petri dish for insurgents.”


Let’s be clear about those “vital national security interests.” America’s vital interests in the Middle East derive from the region’s status as the world’s principle source of oil. President Jimmy Carter enunciated exactly this principle back in 1980 when he promulgated the Carter Doctrine, stating that the U.S. was willing to use “any means necessary, including military force,” to maintain access to supplies of Middle Eastern oil sufficient to keep the global economy running smoothly. All subsequent presidents have reiterated, amplified, and acted on this principle.


The Bush administration, in applying the Carter Doctrine, was faced with the need to access increasing amounts of Middle Eastern oil in light of constantly escalating world energy consumption. In 2001, Vice-President Cheney’s Energy Task Force responded to this challenge by designating Iraq as the linchpin in a general plan to double Middle Eastern oil production in the following years. It was reasonable, task force members decided, to hope for a genuine spurt in production in Iraq, whose oil industry had remained essentially stagnant (or worse) from 1980 to that moment. By ousting the backward-looking regime of Saddam Hussein and transferring the further development, production, and distribution of Iraq’s bounteous oil reserves to multinational oil companies, they would assure the introduction of modern methods of production, ample investment capital, and an aggressive urge to increase output. Indeed, after removing Saddam via invasion in 2003, the Bush administration has made repeated (if so far unsuccessful) efforts to implement this plan.


The desire for such an endpoint has hardly disappeared. It became increasingly clear, however, that successful implementation of such plans would, at best, take many years, and that the maintenance of a powerful American political and military presence within Iraq was a necessary prerequisite to everything else. Since sustaining such a presence was itself a major problem, however, it also became clear that America’s plans depended on dislodging powerful forces entrenched in all levels of Iraqi society — from public opinion to elected leaders to the insurgency itself.


American ambitions — far more than sectarian tensions — constitute the irresolvable core of Iraq’s political problems. The overwhelming majority of Iraqis oppose the occupation. They wish the Americans gone and a regime in place in Baghdad that is not an American ally. (This is true whether you are considering the Shiite majority or the Sunni minority.) As for a “residual” American military presence, the Iraqi Parliament recently passed a resolution demanding that the UN mandate for a U.S. occupation be rescinded.


Even the issue of terrorism is controversial. The American propensity to label as “terrorist” all violent opposition to the occupation means that most Iraqis (57% in August 2007), when asked, support terrorism as defined by the occupiers, since majorities in both the Sunni and Shia communities endorse using violent means to expel the Americans. Hillary Clinton’s ambition that the U.S. must prevent Iraq from becoming a “petri dish for insurgency” (like the President’s stated fear that the country could become the center of an al-Qaedan “caliphate”) will require the forcible suppression of most resistance to the American presence.


As for opposition to Iran, 60% of Iraqi citizens are Shiites, who have strong historic, religious, and economic ties to Iran, and who favor friendly relations with their neighbor. Even Prime Minister Maliki — the Bush administration’s staunchest ally — has repeatedly strengthened political, economic, and even military ties with Iran, causing numerous confrontations with American diplomats and military officials. As long as the Shia dominate national politics, they will oppose the American demand that Iraq support the United States campaign to isolate and control Iran. If the U.S. insists on an ally in its anti-Iran campaign, it must find a way in the next few years to alter these loyalties, as well as Sunni loyalties to the insurgency.


Finally there is that unresolved question of developing Iraqi oil reserves. For four years, Iraqis of all sectarian and political persuasions have (successfully) resisted American attempts to activate the plan first developed by Cheney’s Energy Task Force. They have wielded sabotage of pipelines, strikes by oil workers, and parliamentary maneuvering, among other acts. The vast majority of the population — including a large minority of Kurds and both the Sunni and Shia insurgencies — believes that Iraqi oil should be tightly controlled by the government and therefore support every effort — including in many cases violent resistance — to prevent the activation of any American plan to transfer control of significant aspects of the Iraqi energy industry to foreign companies. Implementation of the U.S. oil proposal therefore will require the long-term suppression of violent and non-violent local resistance, as well as strenuous maneuvering at all levels of government.


Foreigners (Americans Excepted) Not Welcome


This multidimensional opposition to American goals cannot be defeated simply by diplomatic maneuvering or negotiations between Washington and the still largely powerless government inside Baghdad’s Green Zone. The Bush administration has repeatedly gained the support of Prime Minister Maliki and his cabinet for one or another of its crucial goals — most recently for the public announcement that the two governments had agreed that the U.S. would maintain a “long-term troop presence” inside Iraq. Such an embrace is never enough, since the opposition operates at so many levels, and ultimately reaches deep into local communities, where violent and nonviolent resistance results in the sabotage of oil production, attacks on the government for its support of the U.S. presence, and direct attacks on American troops.


Nor can the pursuit of these goals be transferred — any time soon — to an American-trained Iraqi army and police force. All previous attempts at such a transfer have yielded Iraqi units that were reluctant to fight for U.S. goals and could not be trusted unsupervised in the field. The “five year plan” Colonel Bannister mentioned is an acknowledgement that training an Iraqi force that truly supports an American presence and would actively enforce American inspired policies is a distant hope. It would depend on the transformation of Iraqi political attitudes as well as of civic and government institutions that currently resist U.S. demands. It would involve a genuine, successful pacification of the country. In this context, a decline in the fighting and violence in Iraq, both against the Americans and between embittered Iraqi communities, is indeed only a first step.


So surge “success” doesn’t mean withdrawal — yes, some troops will come home slowly — but the rest will have to embed themselves in Iraqi communities for the long haul. This situation was summarized well by Captain Jon Brooks, the commander of Joint Security Station Thrasher in Western Baghdad, one of the small outposts that represent the front lines of the surge strategy. When asked by New Yorker reporter Jon Lee Anderson how long he thought the U.S. would remain in Iraq, he replied, “I’m not just blowing smoke up your ass, but it really depends on what the U.S. civilian-controlled government decides its goals are and what it tells the military to do.”


As long as that government is determined to install a friendly, anti-Iranian regime in Baghdad, one that is hostile to “foreigners,” including all jihadists, but welcomes an ongoing American military presence as well as multinational development of Iraqi oil, the American armed forces aren’t going anywhere, not for a long, long time; and no relative lull in the fighting — temporary or not — will change that reality. This is the Catch-22 of Bush administration policy in Iraq. The worse things go, the more our military is needed; the better they go, the more our military is needed.


Yes, but missed it. Will try to catch it during
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
did anyone catch how she said "nucular" ? --- OMG
Just gave me that warm McBush feeling all over...
catch ya later, babe.
nm
Anyone else catch the first dance?
Have you ever seen so much love between 2 people? 
He's not "my boy". I only catch him

a couple times a week early in the morning if I can't sleep.


I don't have stocks or bonds, so it's really a moot point. I just need some laughs once in a while over how upset he gets over some things.


Not sure his karma will catch up with him any time soon....
Remember he's got the power that he created backing him.  And yes, I did read that what he did, if he did it as claimed, could be punishable in the extreme.  But of course I think nothing will happen.  I am following this with great interest.  Here's from the AP:

WASHINGTON - For the better part of two years, the word coming out of the Bush White House was that presidential adviser Karl Rove had nothing to do with the leak of a female CIA officer's identity and that whoever did would be fired.




But Bush spokesman Scott McClellan wouldn't repeat those claims Monday in the face of Rove's own lawyer, Robert Luskin, acknowledging the political operative spoke to Matthew Cooper of Time magazine, one of the reporters who disclosed Valerie Plame's name.


McClellan repeatedly said he couldn't comment because the matter is under investigation. When it was pointed out he had commented previously even though the investigation was ongoing, he responded: "I've really said all I'm going to say on it."


_____________


Could it be that the White House has told a LIE????  How many is that now?


So anyway, if you hear any more interesting news on this please share.


 


If anyone can catch Hardball tonight

on MSNBC, there's a wonderful interview with parents of one of the Marines who was killed in the last couple days in Iraq.


These people gave the ultimate sacrifice, and IMHO their voices are very important.


wow did anybody catch the daily show

depended on it.


 


Deliverance, anyone?


Evidently, she did't quite catch your drift.
nm
Hazel is that catch-all eye color,
not brown, not green, not gray, sort of indeterminate (too long a word to put on the driver's license, so they invented hazel.)
Well, at least you have a new catch phrase. Don't wear it out now, ya hear? nm

By any chance, you catch Larry King?
To begin with, I was a pregnant teen and most definitively will be voting for Obama. The other unwed mother poster is voting for Obama too in case you hadn't noticed. Bully, fear and threat tactics are not effective.

His candidacy is alive and well and has nothing to do with this issue and how it is going to play out. Tonight, Larry King's panel were talking this subject up one side and down the other. Every single issue that was raised today in these posts on this board were touched upon....every single one. SP is in the political arena now. Unfortunately, she has put her daughter there too. The issues surrounding this will be politicized. You can't stop this train.
Didn't quite catch the drift of this post.
su
excuse my typos today...I catch them after I post... :) nm

Anyone catch John Kerry's speech last night?

Scathing against McCain.  Fabulous speech.  He echoed some of my thoughts on McCain, about how much he has changed to pander to the base and get the nomination.  Here is a snippet:


 


Candidate McCain now supports the wartime tax cuts that Senator McCain once denounced as immoral. Candidate McCain criticizes Senator McCain’s own climate change bill. Candidate McCain says he would now vote against the immigration bill that Senator McCain wrote. Are you kidding? Talk about being for it before you’re against it.


 


I'm a left-leaning independent who thought I may vote Republican this time around if McCain ran.  Well, he did, and as time went on I could see how much he has changed his positions to pander to the far right and I have lost most of my respect for him.  I'll give him credit for being a veteran and a POW (a point that while it was once a powerful emotional point for him is now abused by him as an excuse for just about everything is sadly becoming a joke of his own making), but candidate McCain is NOT the same as Senator John McCain.  Anyway, great speech by Sen. Kerry.


I especially enjoyed the real refreshing lie I caught him in the other day...did you catch it?
...no, guess not...no one in the media called him on it either.


Here, let me give you a hint. Obama said that all of the conservative and liberal economists agreed that his economy recovery plan was good (or would work, or something like that).


The lie being that "all the conservative economists" part.

That was one, big, fat, honking lie.....no one even blinked and took his word for it.


My DH says there's at least a half dozen conservative economists out there that don't agree with Obama...and yet....if Obama says they do....everyone believes him.


He lies and you don't even know it, he's so smooth about it.....



But some of us know he does...lie that is......he's getting real good at talking both sides of the issues, so that if something does or doesn't come to pass, he can say I told you so....or whatever needs to be said to save his you know whatsis.

I think he's learned a lot from the Clintons lately, don't you?
It has already been demonstrated that the two boards cannot mix.
To answer your question, no, I don't like to hang out with people who espouse my point of view, but the sniping was totally out of hand and no logical debate was taking place.  I go to other web sites for that kind of debate.
That is if political boards like this are
allowed to remain in existence when Obama's regime takes over.
I posted it on some other boards that
I visit that have a lot of traffic, so hopefully that will get a lot of signatures. I also forwarded it to my friends & family & asked that they sign & forward it. So many people have no idea this is happening. One comment on the petition site said something to the effect of we shouldn't start doing that... 'START' doing it! They have no idea how long it's been going on!
dont worry, you wont catch on fire when you read them!
i have to go know and pick up my daughter.  I might do some bible thumping on the way to the school, who knows.
We're just trying to catch our breath after laughing over some of the blind right posts (and W. i
nm
Okay. Thanks. I understand now. Different rules for different boards.
nm
The administrator did not say we could not post on other boards. sm
She said to be respectful.  Tell me where in my post I was disrespectful.   Why not get off of this and start an intelligent debate instead of whole threads crying about being kicked out of the sandbox.  
I never called anyone on these boards a liar. SM
That word is used and abused by many on this board though. Not by me.
What exactly does this have to do with lying on chat boards. nm

Some truth about ISP and message boards
Hey Observer, you are right to be concerned. ISPs are certainly available to administrators so that they can ban certain parties if they want to. This is not normally a problem if the administrator and monitors are fair and impartial, and posters stick to the rules.

We've seen in the past here however that certain folks had the ear of the Politics moderator and this led to vindictive bannings that shouldn't have happened in a fair forum. Some people were allowed to get away with abuse while others were banned for simply asking that they not be abused.

In all fairness to the moderator and administrator, however, they devised this new forum format and since that has happened, there's been very little interference and things seem a lot more equitable. I admit I haven't read down the posting list yet to see what you're referring to, so we'll see about that:)

I think the tighy Righties got very used to being able to bait, insult, and then kick off anyone they wanted and they really enjoyed it. Now they're screaming because people can actually talk back to them and give them a few doses of their own sour medicine. Regardless of what the posts below say, I for one thank the administrator and moderator for making this fairer play possible as much as they have.
That's why there are 2 boards for the conservatives who like the "yes man"
debates. I suggest to the people who don't like liberal ways go there. They will be able to high five and keep hope alive with the Bush yeppers and congregation.
I have visited a lot of chat boards.
But I have to say that of all the venomous and hateful posters, you are the winner.  Most of the boards I frequent would have banned you a long long time ago.  And that is left and right.  It's says something about the administrator and fairness that they allow you to continue to post.  I have no problem with differing viewpoints, it's just that you state yours in immature and horrific ways.  I never say someone so consumed with hatred.  It really must suck to be you.
The administrator came on ONCE not REPEATEDLY and she came on all boards.
She did not say to stay off the boards.  She said not to slam posters.  Now, if you can manage to take a second of your time and check out the conservative board, you will see the same thing is taking place there.  The only difference is that they are not whining about it.  Get real.
From looking on both boards, both sides are guilty.
,
Things are dead on both these boards
because posters who have any interest in rational debate have either been driven away or have easily found better places to go for discussion. Congratulations.
I have read Sir Percy on other boards.
His posts are disturbing, and I absolutely do not mean they are disturbing in a thought provoking way. 
boards and splinters my friends
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html
There is a separte board for that. How many boards
The political posts have remained buried in between and under these posts since lunch time.
Then all boards should be combined as one - see message
Because you are bring "gab" issues to the political board, and as far as what I can see others are sick of it too.

Take the juvenile subjects of Bristol Palin and her boyfriend to the gab board - that is where it belongs.

Maybe there should be a whole new subject board for sick issues like how to be joyful when other people are going through hard times as long as it involves a relative of a republican politician.

Again, take the discussion of Bristol Palin and her boyfriend to the gab board, then we don't have to read the juvenile posts!!!!
Hey, JTBB, did you happen to catch Janene Garofolo last night on Olbermann? sm
Her psychological analysis of Lamebaugh and the type of people who ""follow""him was right on the money!!  I guess there is whole lot of self-loathing going around on this board!!  LOL