Accusation doesn't equal fact
Posted By: gh on 2006-01-21
In Reply to: U.S. Spies on Americans who disagree with Bush policies - PK
anybody who has a beef against Bush could come out with this...doesn't make it true.
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Interesting regarding equal pay for equal work...
http://www.gop.com/news/NewsRead.aspx?GUID=8b69f23e-3ec7-4e68-b1e0-15fdf136d68c
Doesn't change the fact....Obama is a socialist....
and you are condoning trampling all over someone's civil rights because they asked a question and Obama answered it honestly. Why would that upset you so much? Ohhbaamaaa is socialist, he said he was in his answer, explained it very clearly. So you should just embrace his socialism and stop shooting the messenger, right?
Slurs? Unfounded accusations? You mean like doing a law enforcement background check on someone for asking a question?
That is HONEST?? pUleezzeee.
Hello, unless there has been a verdict in a trial, it IS only an accusation.
nm
With liberals it's not the proof behind the accusation
it's the seriousness of the charge....
That accusation was so effective Obama
nm
Lose the "denial" accusation will ya.
x
Gee, never saw that liar accusation coming! LOLOLOLOL
The fact that an article was written does not make it fact. I hope you know that. nm
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Two-way street not so equal?
Just my 2 cents... though it is definitely a 2-way street with both conservative and liberal radio talking heads (and others) make these comments about all kinds of stuff, including assassinations of either Bush or Obama... I do see a difference here - in that there are a large number of folks in this country who think Bush should be in prison, impeached, or at the very least, hasn't done our country a big favor with this war...with popularity at an all-time low... NOT that I'm saying he deserves to be assassinated, I'm not!!
But this talk of Obama being in danger - it is not because he has done something wrong, it is not because he is a hugely unpopular person (quite the contrary), and it is not because of his actions.... it is about the color of his skin. Racism. And, fear.
Thanks for listening to my 2 cents...
On the equal pay thing....
the women on McCain's campaign (and there are more women on his staff than on Obama's) make more money than the men do...and the women on Obama's campaign make less than the men do...would be nice if candidate practiced what he preached. Just sayin.
Equal percentage is right, I think....nm
nm
He just wants everyone equal, whether you work
nm
Thank you and I have equal respect for your decision. s/m
We can all only vote for what we hope (there's that word HOPE again) that we have made the right decision. I do have FAITH in the American people that all of us will come together and take it in our hands to clean up this country at some point. Neither candidate nor member of Congress is going to look out for "we the people" until we stand up on our hind legs and DEMAND it. That is our right under the Constitution of the United States of American and I HOPE we will do it. We did it on a small scale after 9/11. I say "small scale" because while everyone came together, it didn't last long and we all went back to business as usual. If the prediction of us being in such dire straits as we are "warned" about on a daily basis if Obama is elected, I think we ain't seen nothing yet as how the AMERICAN people will band together and DEMAND change. However, if McCain gets in the White House, as I think he will, we'll continue right on down the garden path just as we have the last 8 years. AND it won't surprise me if before this election is done Bush declares martial law and then we are for sure in a fine fix. Use your noggins for a change instead of just trying to get McCain elected, we ain't rid of George W. Bush YET.
hero does not equal presidential - nm
x
Equal opportunity basher....... sm
I'm an Independent, and have been for years, because I don't uphold the Dem/Pub party process any more. It may have served a real purpose when it was initiated, but those times are long gone. My Daddy was a true-blue Democrat and it wasn't until his later years that he really began looking at the issues and the politicians as a whole rather than through the bipartisan microscope.
My opinion, now that the big event is behind us, is that everyone (at least the ones on this board) voted in their own conscience. Most of the posters here seem to have researched the issues and applied their own opinions as they felt led and I don't think anyone needs to be told "I told you so" or needs to rub in the fact that their man won. As Chele, I believe it was, pointed out, we (collectively speaking) have placed a man in office, and while the future ain't lookin' too rosey right now, we all need to pull together and get through whatever the fallout may be the best we can.
FWIW...I've never been happy with the "solution" to the Kennedy assasination either. I think it was poorly handled yet expertly covered up. Be that as it may, the person(s) that were really behind this have to deal with whatever recompense they have coming.
To paraphrase Hoover, "A crow in every pot and forget about the car!"
However, he did not believe that all citizens are equal under the law. Shame on ...sm
you likening BO to Hitler.
No, because it's still not equal. Human beings should
nm
Equal rights to you people is when
you get YOUR way and to he!! with whatever majority group doesn't like it or doesn't believe in it. That is your idea of equal rights.
Legality does not equal morality.
Many things in this country are legal that God would disapprove of. You cannot serve God and man. I wouldn't go so far as to call this murderer a doctor. Doctor's try to save lives. He was far from a doctor.
Equal opportunity for all Americans is not a new vision.
Get with the program.
This country needs more love and equal rights, and
It's just a catch-all name for people who feel they have the right to control other people's freedom to live their lives, even when it's none of their business.
Obama is a CHRISTIAN. He supports equal rights...sm
for all people including gay people. I think that the radical Christian right are the gay haters.
Hate speech is an equal opportunity killer.
neither can you.
Government grant does not equal 10 years on welfare
We are talking about those who make a job out of being on welfare.
Welfare in it's ideology was not a bad thing. It's a great concept. Unfortunately, it gets abused BIG TIME.
The concept for grants is that she will take this grant, go to school, in turn get a good job, pay taxes, and through those taxes the grant will be refunded.
What upsets me are the people who have six kids but refuse to get married because the girlfriend will lose the food stamps. Or the woman who lets her boyfriend and his buddies deal drugs out of their home for a cut of the money and they are living on our tax dollars selling those drugs to our children (well, your children, I don't have any yet, because we can't afford it!)
Eugenics and master plans.are equal opportunity
Its all about the source and what their driving agendas may be. Readers who believe in and promote master plan theories based on racial purity would be WAY gullible to be convinced of other conspiracy theories, no matter how idiotic the are. Those of us grounded in reality, not so much.
Scouring the net on the topics you named (especially govt takeovers) speaks for itself. If you cite sources from the whack world, don't expect to be taken too seriously.
Fair & balanced - they give both sides equal time
They let both sides speak. They have equal guests meaning 2 pubs & 2 crats, or 1 pub and 1 crat. Unlike the other liberal stations who have 5 crats and 1 pub.
They tell the news like it is. There is more to Fox News than O'Reilly and Hannity. I'm watching Shepard Smith and others who are reporting news stories. These are the same news stories I see on other channels. They are fair because they give a chance for the opposing side to explain themselves and they are balanced because they have equal number of people. What liberals don't like is that the conservatives have anything to say at all. The liberals want to control the country (getting one heck of a start too), which would be an economic disaster to the country (thank you Pelosi with your pet pig projects you keep hiding in the stimulus and Reid for slipping in a pig project that does nothing for the rest of the country). The liberals are trying to shut down anyone with opposing viewpoints than theirs, and they are having their lawyers re-write the laws and change to consitution. - Not good for America. The only thing this stimulus plan is good for is to get people re-elected into their position. Congress does not give a hoot about America....
Pelosi: "Hurry fellas lets vote, I'm off to Rome". Hey there Pelosi, have a good trip, while we all wait for our pink slips and food stamps. Have yourself a great time at our expense.
Ayers doesn't regret the bombings, doesn't feel like they did enough sm
In a story that appeared in the Times on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, Ayers told a reporter while promoting his memoir "Fugitive Days": "I don't regret setting bombs...I feel we didn't do enough."
Mr. Ayers, now a professor of education in Chicago, was a founder of the Weather Underground, which bombed government buildings in the early 1970s. He was indicted on conspiracy charges that were thrown out for prosecutorial misconduct.
He served with Mr. Obama on the board of the Woods Fund of Chicago, a charitable organization, and, along with his wife, the former Weather Underground member Bernardine Dohrn, hosted Mr. Obama at his home in 1995 when he was running for state office.
Mr. Obama has called Mr. Ayers "somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8 years old."...so because it was 40 years ago, and Ayers is still proud of what he did, how is it justifiable for a US presidential candidate to now be friends with this man? Unless he has the same view of America.
Let me rephrase that. It doesn't *seem like* my vote doesn't count...sm
It does not count because its in the bag that our 3 electoral votes will go to the republican party.
Fact is, since I'm not
etc., you wouldn't believe it - no matter how strong the evidence - so why would I supply you with more?
Fact is fact ???
The economy is growing. I don't care if it is exploding. The fact here is that more and more people are becoming more and more desperate. I think going to college is fine but what jobs are these people going to get when they get out of college. You mentioned something about trades...please, all the manufacturing jobs are gone. Small business...only a handful ever succeed. My guess is that most people wiped out of good paying jobs with benefits are supposed to go to Wal-Mart and just pretend everything is okay, and here in Florida, join the service industry. Money, the real god of our times, is what is killing a lot of people here in Florida. As an example, in my town, there are hundreds of small mobile home parks inhabited primarily by the elderly. The big money developers are coming in here, buying the parks and the people are out on the street. The owners of the park get millions of dollars and the people are usually offered a flat fee that would pay rent for about 2 years, or given 60 days to find a place to move their homes, On fixed income this, of course, cannot be done. Many of these folks lived all their lives doing the right thing, playing by all the rules. They moved to Florida, own a little bit of property and now they are expected to rent again and work again. An apartment 1 BR 1 BA that is decent would be around $1000. You do the math. Even those communities that are owned by the homeowners themselves have no say. Eminent domain comes into play and then they are really in trouble so...being elderly, forced out of your home, having Medicare screwed up beyond belief is okay because the economy is strong. I don't care about words or pie charts. I care about what I see and know to be true by looking at it with my own eyes. Just who is it benefitting from this growing economy?? Oh well, the market will straighten everything out, just wait.
Another thing is that everyone is not college material, even these days when a degree doesn't mean all that much anyway. It surely won't guarantee you a job and if you went to college after the 1970s you don't even have to be smart to get in; not that smart people are not in college, you just don't have to be anymore. You don't even have to know how to read..but that is for another day. How many middle management degreed people have lost their jobs...quite a few. Airlines, GM, drug companies, utility companies...all these places hire degreed people. That old sheepskin won't save you anymore.
You say the poor will always be with us and I believe that as well. I do not believe that it is okay to walk over the additional bodies that greed has produced and there are legion. You call it lack of motivation on the part of the poor. I call it greed.
By the way, I see that the Iraq election is mysteriously mirroring the US election, split right down the middle.
Oh, and the drilling in Alaska. Why don't they drill in Detroit and make some cars that use some other form of fuel. It just never ends.
Debacle...absolutely.
So is the fact sm
that Saddam's son-in-law said the WMDs were moved to Syria before the U.S. got involved. But that always gets overlooked. There are a lot of facts out there. Suffice it to say, people believe the set that fits their overall world view.
While I still do not buy the fact that....
the US has made "constant intrusion" in the middle east for oil (if that were the case, you would think that when it has not netted results in the 40+ years posters here say it has been happening, they could see the handwriting on the wall)...in fact, I don't believe it. The reason we started importing so much oil is that the lovely Democratic congresses so taxed the oil industry in this country that drilling became too expensive, they stopped building refineries because not only taxation but environmentalists raising all kind of cane, yada yada. Our own government has done it to us. Overtaxation is the cause of multiple problems and is the MAIN reason for outsourcing. People want the cheapest they can buy, so in order for businesses to meet that demand they have to offshore...because their own government has taxed them to death. Sad, but true.
I do agree with what you said about Obama not knowing squat about foreign affairs....you are right, he does not. And who he has advising him should scare the knickers off ALL of us.
Obama is a figurehead with big money backers and politcos behind him...a marionette with a hand up his back. When he is not giving "hope" and "change" speeches that have been written for him, when he has to think on his feet, he is not as "eloquent." That being said, it is the hand up his back and the people he surrounds himself with that concern me. THAT tells the tale.
I look at his voting record...one of the most liberal in the US...THAT is the real Barack Obama. He is trying to move to the center now as he doesn't think there are enough of the far left (like he really is) to get him elected. Like I said in the other post...beware the wolf in sheep's clothing. I don't trust him, I don't believe him. "Hope" and "change" are buzz words. Yeah, he wants to "change" things...but to what is the question.
It was me; I said, in fact, you were the one who had the...
inside track to what Obama thinks...I believe it was because you posted "Obama thinks" and went on to say what he thought... ;)
What I said in this post was common sense...if Obama is as smart as everyone says he is, he has sat on boards with Ayers and Ayers hosted a political fundraiser for him, so I can't imagine he doesn't know what Ayers is about. It is not exactly a secret...I wasn't very old when Ayers was doing his bombing but I know he still holds the same beliefs..he has said so on numerous occasions. So if little old me knows it, I cannot imagine Barack Obama does not know it. I never hinted what Obama THINKS about Ayers, what I said was that he knows Ayers and knows that Ayers still holds anarchist views and is not a bit bit sorry for what he did in the past. It should be obvious to anyone he knows what Ayers is about. Now what he personally thinks about Ayers...that is another story entirely. I don't know. Maybe the stuff Columbia University released will shed some light. Maybe it won't. We shall see.
The fact is
The teen was raised in that family, but as a human being she made her own decisions that her mother can't always control. Just because she didn't fully coincide with her mother's platform of abstinence, she is with her pro-life stance and keeping her baby, marrying the dad.
Fact is fact whether you want to believe it or not
Your hatred for one candidate blinds you to the truth of what your candidate is all about and who supports him.
Obama's plans for America WILL turn our country into a socialist country. They will take your hard earned money to support their programs. That is not a scare tactic, that is the truth and his website even supports those facts (the website lists all his programs he supports). If you think it's fair that I have to work 60 hours a week to support my family, but when Obama gets in there I'll now have to work 80 hours a week because the extra 20 hours I get paid for is going to go the the people who benefit from me working (when they don't). That is not free enterprise, that IS most definitely socialism. What part of that don't you understand. I learned that in grammar school. You make it sound so innocent "help our fellow American's in need". That is not helping them. That is stealing from people who work pretty darn hard at their jobs, but now have to work more hours so the government can steal it from us and give it to people who are not working and who will benefit from all these programs. That is redistrubution of wealth. That is socialism. I don't know if its communism, not sure what the difference between the two are, but I do know that a lot of the people who influenced Obama when he was growing up were communists. And if I want to "help my fellow American in time of need" I will donate to the charity I want to donate to and I will donate how much I want to. Right now I work from 7:30 am to 10:30 pm just to earn enough money to live (and have maybe an extra $10 left over at the end of a couple weeks. Now when Obama gets in I'm going to have to work from maybe 6am to 12 am if not more with the extra taxes I will have to pay. That is the cold hard truth and it doesn't sound too comforting to me.
The only thing rediculous about this post was asking if Jesus was a socialist, and then giving a sermon in the post (again that place is the faith board). Socialism was not around when Jesus lived. I also think if this was happening when he was alive people would give what they could to help out others, but Jesus would not go out and tell them you have to work double time now and give to those while they do nothing.
People seem to think they know what Jesus would do but they don't. They don't do enough researching to find out what this man was about. They just repeat what they've heard their church leader spout and then try and make others feel guilty if they don't give (but then again that is for another post).
I don't think the fact that I don't like
Obama's view on united healthcare, pro-choice, tax plans and foreign policy make me ignorant. I have a different idea on where I would like this country to be and that just isn't it. Just because it's not your viewpoint does not mean that it's ignorant.
I totally understand that conservatives are not going to be able to convince liberals to take their viewpoint and vice versa because they want different things! How hard is that for people to understand?
The sad fact is
it is so possible for it to get that bad here, for another civil war to break out. Only this time, we have bigger and better guns and equipment which will kill so many more. And don't forget, the whole world is watching us, and don't think for a second that these unfriendly countries wouldn't pounce on us in a second if they saw we were at war with ourselves.
We need to be able to debate about this without resorting to name calling, fighting, death threats, cheating, blowing things out of proportion, etc. I believe this election has thrown us way back in terms of racism and segregation. From BOTH sides! I live in Georgia and you would swear we were back in the 1930s. The animosity and tension that is growing is ridiculous.
I think our biggest problem is that we have two candidates that, for the most part, have followers who are 100% FOR them or people who are 100% against them. It's not like we are choosing who we think is the better of the two. We are choosing by saying we don't want the other guy. I'm just as guilty as everyone else. So therefore, whoever wins, there will be quite a few people who still don't agree with him and will watch his every move and be ready to point out the slightest mistake. So we are in for at least four years of being torn apart. THAT isn't going to fix anything!
We have to wake up. We have to stop getting so EMOTIONAL about this election. We have to remember that half of what these POLITICIANS say, no matter how "great" we think they are or are not, half of what they say they aren't going to do. And half of what they are saying they won't do, they will.
Either way, we need to all start living within our means and working together and helping each other, not expecting government to do it for us. That's just humanity, not politics.
No...it has to do with the fact
that some of the associations he has had in his lifetime condone terrorist attacks on our country and others condone racism by spouting hate messages from the pulpit. It has nothing to do with his name or his color. It has to do with who he associates with. If you want to know a true person.....look who they hang with. Birds of a feather, my friend.
But putting all sketchy associations aside, the bottom line is that there are issues that I just don't agree with Obama on. That is why I'm not voting for him. I do not condone abortion. I want to keep my guns. I do not want to raise taxes for anyone. I don't want to give welfare checks to people who are too lazy to get an education and work. I want to stop government spending. I want smaller government. There are just so many issues where Barrack Obama and I do not see eye to eye that I really don't even have to use his race or associations as a reason to not vote for him.
Fact
It is a fact that he did not vote for it because there was already legislation in place to protect the infant in this case.
More scare tactics.
It has nothing to do with the fact that
it is Obama's plan. It has everything to do with the fact that holding these prisoners indefinitely without processing them goes against everything our democracy stands for. I would applaud the Bush administration for doing the same thing and have written members of the current administration and Congress saying just that.
You POV is not a fact.
You give way too much importance to yourself. It's of no consequence to me anyway. In fact, I encourage O haters to continue on the same track they were on before the election and are still on. All that fear mongering, prognostications of gloom and doom, Armageddon, those witch hunts, smears and scandal vigils will do nothing more than insure O's re-election in 2012. Keep up the good work, dear.
Given the fact............ sm
that the magazine would have to procure his permission to print that photo, I would say that his permission alone verifies the fact that he is pleased with his rock-star image and America's infatuation with him.
And what you won't see anywhere is the fact....
...that there will an astronomical amount of interest piled on all this play money he keeps printing while saying out of the opposite side of his mouth that everything will be okay if consumers start spending again? I'd be happy if they would just give me back the near 2 million $ that I paid into S.S. that I probably won't ever see! But bless those illegals - they get it without a question or a hitch! This situation is not even going to get better this year - don't care WHICH station you listen to. People aren't working, gas is going back up (I guess to punish those of us who are still working????) and groceries are getting utterly ridiculous. "Share the wealth," he said? Methinks he really meant, "You are all gonna be poor except us govt officials who are gonna take every dime you have now and ever hope to have in the future".....of course, smiling that what was characterized as a "charismatic" smile? Yeah, I remember that smile - from a friend of mine who then proceeded to stab me squarely in the back - looked about the same to me.
And I do know this to be fact......
nm
And this has WHAT to do with the fact that the majority..sm
of jobs paying minimum wage are not held by teenagers looking for extra money to buy ipods.
I'm waiting scarecrow with a brain....
You might want to go even further back, or in fact. SM
I didn't say I was not a conservative. I didn't say what I was as a matter of fact. It was the FACT that the poster ASSUMED I was something that frosted me. This has nothing to do with the posts we are talking about, but you sure spent a lot of time looking for that didn't you? How about finding the original posts that actually ARE being talked about? It might take awhile, but they are there. I know you either have a lot of time, or have printed off every post and have them neatly arranged in a three ring binder.
That's what I figured. In fact,
it truly was a rhetorical question. 
The fact is the war is not illegal
It went through all appropriate channels, and we have NEVER agreed with the U.N. to approve all military actions through them. We do have agreements, but we have NEVER given the U.N. the authority to tell us whether we will go to war or not. The congress has ultimate authority to approvate any military action we pursue, period. They approved it, so it's completely legal.
NOT GOSSIP -- FACT
First of all, I'm not just gossiping. Did you watch the link I posted....this was his personal response to a woman calling Hillary out of her name. Second of all, the "C" story is very true, it's been told by several people who witnessed it. Now you are gossiping saying it's a lie (believe what you like). When he was asked about it at a town hall meeting -- he sure did not deny it. Where are McCain's kids anyway -- I never see them come out in support of him. I always check my facts, but I have a right to state my opinion, just as you have yours (opinion).
Well....it IS substantiated by the fact that...
Obama is following black liberation theology...hence his take from the oil companies and give to the poor that he has promised to do. So...okay. He is not embracing it...but he IS following it. That is a fact. Haven't you seen the campaign ad? He is Barack Obama and he approved that message...so he said.
Fact.....not malarky. nm
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