A previous poster asked who PNAC was. I answered. sm
Posted By: LVMT on 2006-08-05
In Reply to:
They influence US and world policy, so believe they are definitely a threat. I first heard about the Illuminati in a Bible study class. Thought everyone knew about them. You all must think everything said is a conspiracy theory. No, Bush isn't one, but I am sure he takes orders from them, and so does other world leaders. In the book, The Creature from Jekyll Island, the creature is a monster known as The Federal Reserve System conjured up at a secret meeting by a group of Illuminati snakes on a remote island off the east coast of America in 1913.
I do believe Islam is a threat, but I also think they are being provoked and persecuted. If you do not know history on the above, then you wouldn't understand why I think this.
Complete Discussion Below:  marks the location of current message within thread
The messages you are viewing
are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select
the boards given in left menu
Other related messages found in our database
Maybe no one answered the two previous posts...sm
becuase they're tired of getting jumped on by your side, you know, the anti-fanatic fanatics...lol....but true.
I've refrained from commenting on this issue, even though I feel as if Obama is hiding something. Wonder what it could be?
not previous poster but
I actually know several people of mixed race (black/white), who are openly racist against whites. Not saying that Obama is or isn't, but it can happen.
I'm not the previous poster but....(sm)
I personally know about a dozen people, friends and relatives, who fit her post.
I know more about Obama than any of them, but they don't give a darn who the real man is behind the facade that he chooses to show the world.
Not to mention the documentary made during the election made that shows Obama voters, who knew/know next to nothing about the man they had just voted for...and didn't care, even when things were pointed out to them.
Some people are so uninformed who voted for Obama. My mother, my sister-in-law included, just to name a few. They only voted the democrat party like they always did...could care less who the real Obama is.....
Asked and answered...
...ad nauseam! 
You asked, I answered.
I don't think fairy tales make for good foreign policy. Pre-emptive war under false pretenses that kill over 100,000 people waged in the WRONG COUNTRY to avenge daddy's honor and advance mythical global hegemony. No, Lu, the shrub has not made us safer, though you are free to give credit where you see fit. I would never try to talk down a blind Bushie but I can state with unwavering certainty that there are better, smarter, more honest and less deadly approaches to foreign policy, which you are about to witness first-hand on the dawn of this new era.
You asked a question, I answered it. I'm not sure what you want. nm
I asked a simple question, and you answered...nm
I in no way twisted your post, merely asked if it extended to the opposition, as you have mainly been talking about the president in this thread.
Thanks for answering.
So what, you're 80, 90 years old and know this? Previous poster talking about...sm
Joseph Kennedy back in the 1940s and 1950s, some 60-70 years ago, and what he did and didn't do? It's all in the history books.
Maybe Teddy is like that today and pays for nothing (doubt that, but hey, you say live there, whatever), really don't care for him much at all, what with Chappaquiddick (sp?) and all, and how daddy Kennedy got young Teddy off on murder charges on that poor girl, Mary Jane Kopechne. Daddy Kennedy called in favors for that one, too, doncha know.
It's well known how much daddy Kennedy did for JFK way back then, to get him elected. It's called history.
No just the poster you answered.
I'm beginning to feel the same way. He's pouring good money after bad. He should get wise and stop it RIGHT NOW.
After giving AIG more money yesterday, I feel all O knows is how to spend and that seems to be his cure-all for what ails the country. You would think he would get the hint by now with the market tanking and everyone losing their pensions and 401Ks.
To a great extent, it is Frank's fault, previous poster correct.
Barney Frank and the rest of the democrats in charge of Congress now, will be laughing at you, too....at all of us.
For the poster who asked for me to
was a Moslem.........
The rag was himself while on "This Week" with George Stephanapoulos. Obama was talking about his religion and said, " My Muslim faith" and then said when questioned that he "made a mistake".
Is that enough citing for you or do you not believe what he said either?
You blind O lovers need to open your eyes folks!
Blindness will get you nowhere when he has sold your country down the river to the terrorists.
Poster asked for the link and I provided it.
As far as preying, the articles and examples of that are, as they say in laboratory terminology, "too numerous to count." And that is unfortunate.
To the poster who asked the original question.
BDAyes response. I realize that my concept of this is biased by a leftward lean. Nevertheless, I am not alone in this viewpoint and she has said it better than I ever could because I DO get very passionate on the subject of Katrina refugees.
My best friend lost 2 family members in that storm because they could not get out in time. In any case, I thought it was best to frame the question in this format so you could get a broader perspective than my own and hear from all sides. I tried my best to fend off the bashes and innuendo I myself was giving into yesterday. I had three hours of sleep the night before, stocking up, boarding up, and calling relatives who live closer to the Gustav's bullseye to tell them to come on down to my place.
Next day, I spent several hours posting in the middle of the acidic environment of this forum to which I was vulnerable. By the time late night rolled around, I was not exactly in my top form and never really am when it comes to this subject.
You see, my best friend still wakes up in the middle of the night being tortured by the memory of her own near-death experience and the loss of her grandmother and father. I tell her to call me whenever it happens. She does. I listen. For some of us, it is WAY personal and we are still living out the aftermath of that tragedy and the way it was handled.
PNAC....
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
Check it out. Go way back to Kristol, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld PRE, yes I said PRE 9/11. Bin Laden gave them the means to get into Iraq they had been searching for. PNAC goes back a loooong way. Once more, what's it going to take for you guys to see this administration for it is, has done, is planning to do and to what depths it is taking us. What will it take???
Re: PNAC etc. sm
There is a shadow government, better known as the Illuminus or ruling elite. They are very powerful world banking families, 13 I believe. They control the Federal Reserve, which is an arm of the US Government, but is privately owned.
1961: John F. Kennedy references the shadow government in a speech he gave. I put the link to an audio of it above.
The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings.
no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. If you are awaiting a finding of 'clear and present danger,' then I can only say that the danger has never been more clear and its presence has never been more imminent.
It requires a change in outlook, a change in tactics, a change in missions -- by the government, by the people, by every businessman or labor leader, and by every newspaper. For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence
It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed
Info on PNAC here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century
yes, I asked you...but I asked you a specific question...
about the peace movement. I asked why you did not take your ideals to the real enemies of peace...and your answer was that you leave them to God but will instead preach to us not to fight them, even when they bring the fight to us. So be it.
We will agree to disagree.
I did not personally call you a whiner. As to who sent the military...I will say one thing. When you join the military, you take an oath. That oath has been posted here. You are under no illusions. You know that you may be called to war. It is an all voluntary army over there now. There is no draft. No one is over there because they were forced to go.
As to the people sending having never been...what has that got to do with anything?It was not just George Bush and Dick Cheney, Lurker. It was Congress. Many in Congress do have relatives, even sons and daughters, in Iraq. Have you read the resolution? It is very clear. They knew exactly what they were signing and exactly what it meant. I do not buy the lied to hooey. The Senate and House intelligence committees got the same briefings, or at least enough briefings to vote for the resolution. If they did not (in their own words) use due diligence before signing off on that resolution, whose fault is that? Certainly not Dick Cheney's or George Bush's.
Where were all these people when Clinton was calling for regime change? Because he was a Democrat they will follow him to war? You will see why I do not buy into their rhetoric.
And while I understand your big picture, as I have said over and over and you have never addressed, that will work only if the others in the big picture wish it to work. And if you honestly feel that God wishes that you lay down and let this country be overrun by terrorists, then so be it. I am not of the same mind.
The big difference is that I believe, as did Americans at the time of the Revolution, and that Americans did at the time of the Civil War...and that even some Americans did at the time of Viet Nam...some things are worth dying for. Most of our volunteer military feels the same.
When that is no longer the case, if you are successful in robbing that sense of patriotism from the generations to come without changing the minds of the enemies, where they feel that nothing is worth dying for...in my mind that will only bring death quicker, not keep it at bay, and the loss of the greatest nation on the face of this earth.
So, we agree to disagree.
God bless.
Your previous posts
Arent you the one who posted you were in the military and when asked about it, the truth came out that family members had been in the military, not you? So, are you spinning the untruths again? Or are you someone else using the same initials?
It was probably the previous owner.
Geez.
Previous post
The democrats voted over 90% with their own party just as McCain did with his (Bush). Go to factcheck.org.
Imbicilic? That's juvenile. Just because you don't agree and are a hot-headed Obama follower doesn't mean you have the right to call my posts imbicilic. I have never once degraded my own character by calling an Obama supporter an imbicile. Grow up.
Have they done that with previous pres?
If they have done this with previous presidents, I really couldn't care less. Anyone know the answer to this?
Lilly, check this out per previous
Freedom of the press?
Scott McClellan Says Helen Thomas Opposes 'War on Terrorism'
By E&P Staff
Published: October 13, 2005 3:50 PM ET
NEW YORKQuestions today from longtime White House reporter Helen Thomas caused White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan to declare that she opposes the war on terrorism. His response caused one of Thomas's colleagues, Terry Moran, to leap to her defense.
Here is the exchange from the official transcript:
THOMAS What does the President mean by total victory -- that we will never leave Iraq until we have total victory? What does that mean?
McCLELLAN: Free and democratic Iraq in the heart of the Middle East, because a free and democratic Iraq in the heart of the Middle East will be a major blow to the ambitions --
THOMAS If they ask us to leave, then we'll leave?
MR. McCLELLAN: I'm trying to respond. A free and democratic Iraq in the heart of the broader Middle East will be a major blow to the ambitions of al Qaeda and their terrorist associates. They want to establish or impose their rule over the broader Middle East -- we saw that in the Zawahiri letter that was released earlier this week by the intelligence community.
THOMAS They also know we invaded Iraq.
McCLELLAN: Well, Helen, the President recognizes that we are engaged in a global war on terrorism. And when you're engaged in a war, it's not always pleasant, and it's certainly a last resort. But when you engage in a war, you take the fight to the enemy, you go on the offense. And that's exactly what we are doing. We are fighting them there so that we don't have to fight them here. September 11th taught us --
THOMAS It has nothing to do with -- Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
McCLELLAN: Well, you have a very different view of the war on terrorism, and I'm sure you're opposed to the broader war on terrorism. The President recognizes this requires a comprehensive strategy, and that this is a broad war, that it is not a law enforcement matter.
Terry.
TERRY MORAN On what basis do you say Helen is opposed to the broader war on terrorism?
McCLELLAN: Well, she certainly expressed her concerns about Afghanistan and Iraq and going into those two countries. I think I can go back and pull up her comments over the course of the past couple of years.
MORAN And speak for her, which is odd.
McCLELLAN: No, I said she may be, because certainly if you look at her comments over the course of the past couple of years, she's expressed her concerns --
THOMAS I'm opposed to preemptive war, unprovoked preemptive war.
MR. McCLELLAN: -- she's expressed her concerns.
E&P Staff (letters@editorandpublisher.com)
Links referenced within this article
letters@editorandpublisher.com
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/mailto:letters@editorandpublisher.com
Find this article at:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001305789
If you had read my previous posts
you would know I have a problem with Wright. The others are just propaganda and I don't pay much attention to propaganda.
And if you read the previous decision on this
the judge raled on and on for pages about Berg and frivolous law suits.
And if you read the previous messages
Nice try!
click on the link previous post
It's alive, it's alive..Why, Dr. Frankenstein, it's alive!
Head of FEMA fired from previous job
Take a look at THIS info:
(source http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/2/34622/68348)
Yes, that's right... the man responsible for directing federal relief operations in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, sharpened his emergency management skills as the Judges and Stewards Commissioner for the International Arabian Horses Association... a position from which he was forced to resign in the face of mounting litigation and financial disarray.
And what of that misleading White House press release?
'From 1991 to 2001, Brown was the Commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association, an international subsidiary of the national governing organization of the U.S. Olympic Committee.'
I can't even begin to fact check the dates or IAHA's alleged relationship to the US Olympic Committee, because of course, the IAHA doesn't exist anymore, so there's nothing to Google. But it begs the question... how the hell did his prior job experience prepare Brown to head FEMA?
Well, judging by his agency's performance over the past few days... it didn't.
[Cross-posted at HorsesAss.org]
_______________
Apparently, experience had nothing to do with Bush's bid for the presidency, and so he hands out agency posts like lollipops to his friends regardless of their competence or experience also.
The result is that thousands die unnecessarily on many continents. No one ever gets punished for this. Instead they get the Medal of Honor or civilian equivalent. They get promoted.
If I understant your previous writing correctly,
apparently you have been missing in action over the last 8 years. There have been absolutely NO checks or balances, so how would that be any different than what we already have. Obama ushering in a New World Order? You have completely misunderstood this whole conversation. These things have started almost 20 years ago. It is not NEW, it is now being expounded upon, but NOT NEW!! Bush played into this all of his 8 years in office...maybe you should look again and read some more. I am just the messenger.
previous speech talks how he will check "
nm
Witch hunt on previous administration?
Ah, for the waterboarding? I would suggest you acquaint yourself with the fact that America put Japanese war prisoners to death, yes executed them, for the same thing as your previous administration now stands accused of, torture. Strange how it was horrible when it was done to Americans but now it is ok? You, dearie, need to be off the panic button. This is like mass hysteria with people running scared, of what? Oh, I saw yesterday where Obama has now been called the superpresident, nice sound, huh?
please note...the title line of the previous post were....
sim's words, not mine. Refer to her/his post.
my 401K from a previous employer hasn't lost much
but it's in low risk investments, a lot of bonds, and so when things get better, it probably won't rise as quickly as other 401k's. I'm a chicken.
No, you have paid no attention to the previous posters, maxie...sm
If Obama ushers it in, he will be to blame. Period.
And not it looks like no one in Congress in the minority (i.e., republicans) will be able to present any sort of check and balance to anything that goes on in the next four years.
God help us all.
you must be referring to the previous admin. - GW didn't like to read much......
he did miss that memo about an impending attack on our country using our own private airlines..........Boy wonder? Must be referring to his super hero underwear.
I answered you below -
I've got more important things to do than to continue this argument you want to have. You are wrong!
Thanks to you who have answered...
I may be a dem to the core, but I do appreciate your input.
I answered this below......sm
When you can come up with something different, let me know.
You never answered my question.
I asked how many troops our ally Israel sent to Iraq. I would truly like to know. It might help to change my mind regarding their commitment to being our ally.
Answered in all honesty...
the entire thread was about the Plame case and whether or not she was covert. I posted the court document where the media outlets (CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN, etc) filed to try to stop the judge from compelling the reporters to give their sources (their aim was to protect whistle-blowers, which is definitely not a bad thing). In that brief it was stated: "We do not believe a crime was committed as she was not covert at the time of the incident." CBS acknowledged that they believed that Plame was not covert...supported by the fact that she was openly working at a desk job in the CIA offices and had been for some time. I thought it was hypocritical of CBS to now bring Plame on and in effect say they believe that she was covert. Then some, not all, of the usual posters piled on questioning the integrity of the court and how decisions can be influenced...when it really had nothing to do with the court, but with the filed brief. CBS et AL actually lost the case. If they had won it, there would have been no Libby prosecution. That is what makes what the liberals posted that much harder to understand. It just seemed like just because a conservative posted it, it could not possibly have any merit, and then when they had to admit it did have merit, suddenly the court had no integrity.
Honest answer.
First of all, I don't see that she answered the question. nm
.
Despite the fact that this has been answered over and over,
x
He has answered the questions
by what authority do you determine he has not answered the questions truthfully?
You just answered your own question
about "what critism" when you said Missouri MT said something and then said she didn't say it.
You answered your own question.
My assessment was in line with "most of the world," who laid responsibility for the massacre squarely at the feet of the Israelis, where it belonged, especially since the Shaba and Shatilla refugee camps were under the control of the IDF, not the Lebanese Phalangists, whom the IDF gave access to the refugees in the camps. Do not try to rewrite history that I unfortunately was around to experience directly, at least in its aftermath some 16 days later.
I have not forgotten about the assassination of Bachir Gemayel (Phalangist leader and president-elect, who never took office, BTW) just 2 days before the massacre and the history of hatred between the Phalangists and the Palestinians. If I was aware of it as a young, naïve, ill-informed American, it is only logical that the Israelis were aware of it too and had drawn the conclusion that giving access to the Phalangists was the perfect opportunity for them to commit massacre by proxy, which adds the specter of cowardice to the already atrocious and horrendous act and its outcome.
Trying to belittle me will not effectively disguise your not-so-artful attempt to dodge direct discussion of ISREAL'S invasion of Lebanon, the death of 3000 women, children and elders in the camps and another 30,000 Lebanese they killed during that campaign. So, no, it is pretty easy to distinguish between Israelis, the killers and the Lebanese, the dead guys.
I am not in the habit of giving direct answers to dirt, filth and blatant lies such as yours. Your preposterous notion that Arabs didn't give a flip about the massacre of 3000 Arabs is beyond absurd and speaks for itself, but comes as no surprise from a Zionist who would actually try to gain credibility by discounting 2550 corpses of women, children and elders by disputing fatality figures. The only odd thing here is that your delusions would allow you to believe that anyone in their right mind would accept this callous dismissal as the basis of a credible statement. Evidence of the ice water that flows through you veins can be easily surmised from your bigoted and hateful statement blaming the "Pakistanis" (I am guessing you really meant Palestinians) for somehow inviting the slaughter of the Shaba and Shatila refugees. Yeah, right.
Read my lips. The IDF WAS IN CONTROL of those camps. It was their responsibility to keep them secure. It also would not be the first time they failed to live up to Geneva Convention war conduct imperatives and instead, commit horrendous war crimes. They were the invaders, after all, and Lebanon, the invaded. This seems to be a pervasive affliction of yours, not being able to distinguish between the occupiers and occupied, the invaders and the invaded, the killers and the dead.
My 3000 dead figure is extracted from Sabra and Shatila: Inquiry into a Massacre, penned by ISRAELI journalist Amnon Kapeliouk in June 1984...2000 bodies disposed of by official and Red Crescent sources and another 1000-1500 he documented by investigative reporting and interviews with Phalangist officials. BTW, the findings of an Israeli govt study that Israel was only guilty of not foreseeing the future is like accepting the fox's report about the disappearance of the chickens from the coup. You are more stupid still to say that 3000 "sounds better" than 450, unless you are presuming that I take the same pleasure you obviously take in stacks and piles of Palestinian bodies in mass graves. NOT.
Sorry. I am not able to decipher your last parting shot. What are you referring to when you ask about the [square symbol] attacks on Palestinian refugee camps? Please clarify and I would be happy to comment.
I answered your question.
I provide examples of the current administration's bragging of how effective their policy has been in keeping us safe all turned out to be untrue because the threats were not credible.
I believe you just answered your own question
It's administered just like Medicare and Medicaid.
Lots of fraud within those two organizations, both from users and providers. We all know that from being MTs.
Yes, you are a bit confused. I answered
your posts - this is a free forum, isn't it? - and you referred to me as JTBB.
Do not try to justify your insensitivity with 'I was just joking', this is lame. Because you were NOT joking. You find all the torture and cruelty done to prisoners amusing and entertaining, as you decorate your comments with .. 'LOL, ROFL, Geez etc....'
OK, on that same note you answered your own question..sm
You believe abortion is immoral and that it should be illegal. I think the same thing about this war. Yeah congress passed it, so for all intents and purposes on paper it is legal, but it should be illegal to preempt war against a dictator and his followers (because technically we are not at war against Iraq) that is not a eminent threat to us.
He already has answered tough questions and without a
teleprompter. Now it is about time they let Palin answer a few.
Re: "associations" -- you never answered a prior
Jes' curious............
I agree, was very good. -and she answered with
nm
I answered you above - you are making things up
You accused me earlier of being a racist and posting racist posts. I challenged you and you can't find one. You tried to use something I said after you accused me. I also read through all my posts and there are none. When I referred to Michelle not talking like a black woman I was referring to your typical stereotyping us because we don't always talk or write the way you think all black people do. I'll say it again. Michelle Obama is one classy lady.
You know one thing I was taught growing up is if I'm ever wrong to at least have the decency to say I'm wrong and am sorry, but I guess not everyone is like that.
|
