"You're not forced to read this" is what I was
Posted By: TRYING to type!.. nm on 2008-11-05
In Reply to: I am a concerned citizen too. You can call it "sore - loser" all you like. You're not forced to re
nm
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"you're" oops.
i hate spelling errors! :)
It should be "you're welcome" not "your welcome"
oh my
"You're answer"
If you don't want discussion and/or argument, don't post. Simple as that. If I know something related to someone's post, I'm gonna post a reply.
And you never argue on this forum, do you?
You're right - except MOST of what you read on
Very little truth in most of it. That's why we all go to school, to learn to do our own research, read between the lines, and do our best to separate the truth from the fiction.
And then there's Photoshop. How many photos do you see nowadays that haven't been Photoshopped? Very few. From magazine covers to personal photos, it's a snap to retouch them, and add subract from the image.
I have read the quotes, so I hear what you're saying...sm
and I have also read quotes from prominent republicans who opposed air strikes smunder Clinton. They didn't agree with it and didn't think Saddam should be attacked then, pure partisanship at work. Those quotes are posted on the liberal board, if you're interested read back through them. Some are even quoted saying that an exit plan was imperative. Where are they with their big voices now??? I'll tell you, they're sucking on a Dick Cheney lollipop.
On the war on Iraq, MY sight has been 20/20 prewar and remains the same now. I have always disagreed with going to war in Iraq, but I can only cast one vote.
I don't know about "you all" but
I don't judge people by what they wear. I don't shop at Neiman or Saks and I'm not overly impressed by those who do. I wouldn't care if she did her shopping at Good Will if I thought she had enough brains to turn this country around. With her foreign policy knowledge being that Russia flies over Alaska and she can see Russia from her front porch on a clear day, The odds are highly in favor of her running this country at some point if McCain is elected.
"You better" ....
:)
The "you's" are the judiciary committee....
never meant to imply anyone else. And I frankly don't care how many are exposed, be they Republican, Democrat or polka-dotted. What I think would happen is that there would be a lot of people exposed, a lot of ties between people that might shock people, and that it will never get to the impeachment process. Ever think that it might be to the advantage of professional politicians tha America stays split? The end result, "we the people" will be more disgusted with politics than ever and with both parties. Of course there will still be the hard-liner tunnel-visioned on both sides who won't believe what comes out anyway if it does not fall in their belief system that the Democratic party (or the Republican party) can do no wrong. Some things never change. Sigh.
And there is that segment of the population, the professional politicians, who who don't really believe anything other than what it takes to advance their power base. As I have said ad nauseam, I only register as a Republican in primary years because I HAVE to in order to vote in them. Otherwise, independent because neither of the major parties interest me in the least and it is getting worse by the day.
And no, I don't necessarily think more republicans would come home to roost than democrats in republican administration. Especially since this republican administration kept over so many from the Clinton administration (so much for trying to bipartisan and reach across the aisle. He kept more people over from the last admin in his first term, I think, than any other Pres has. Most of them clean house when they come in). And not much of that went well (Armitage, Tenet, and how many others?). I think anyone honest can say a lot of the problems we face today were in part brought about by those very folks. They at the very least had both hands in it.
And when I said I wanted to know the truth...I meant that. I said the same thing during the Clinton impeachment...and everyone who watched any of that knows the man is guilty of both perjury and obstruction, no matter what he was lying under oath ABOUT, And THAT congressional montage let him walk. So I don't have faith, personally, in ANY professional politician. It is all about power and keeping it.
However, if all this ranting and raving and posturing does inadvertently prove that both parties were involved perhaps this two-party system we have basically been forced into will finally get shaken up enough to listen to "we the people" because they have not in a long time.
Piglet, I think this is a political exercise and I think those starting it have no interest in justice, just like those who started against Clinton had no interest in justice. If they had, they would have convicted him. It was an exercise, this is an exercise. But it has gotten so hatefully, bittery partisan that maybe some of them may not see that they perhaps would be hammering nails into their own political coffins (save Pelosi and a few others who are trying to keep it from happening). And by they, I mean any and all of the resident politicians in DC.
So I say let them have at it. And when the dust settles, we might actually have enough disgusted rank and file in America that who might get elected at that point? Ron Paul? I am at the point now where the whole thing is just ridiculous.
Pelosi is using her power the only way she knows how...in an effort to KEEP it. That is what they are ALL about. If she cared about the truth or justice and really felt in her heart of hearts that anyone in the administration was guilty of impeachable offenses she SHOULD go forward. The fact that she does not, and even tries to keep her fellow Dems from going forward, tells me all I need to know.
That being said...I have not had faith in much of any congressional montage period since Clinton walked and not only walked, continued as President. And even if WE the people push for it, we are not going to see anything done unless the professional politicians weigh the pro's and con's and if they think it will help insure winning the White House, they will go forward. If they think it will not, or will in any way hinder that goal, they won't. That is, sadly, the bottom line and because of that, we may never know the truth. It is in their best interest to just have the innuendo out there...because seeking the truth sometimes finds it, and that might not be the most opportune thing for getting the White House back. Politics.
And in the end...I am wondering if THAT matters, because we knew the truth about Bill Clinton and it didn't matter..he still was not convicted though they all knew he was guilty. Not of multiple affairs, against which there is no law, but lying under oath before a federal grand jury. There is no question he did it, we all saw him do it on national television. So it is not a question of guilt. The perjury automatically proved the obstruction count, he lied to keep from being caught, thereby obstructing "justice." And he not only walked on perjury and obstruction, he remained President. The Arkansas Bar Association knew he was guilty...said so and disbarred him. I believe that soured me (not because it was Bill Clinton...sheesh...but because the law should be applied equally to ALL and certainly that should include the President of the United States no matter what party he is a member of). And those same people who bemoan Clinton being impeached are thirsting for impeachment of someone else for the SAME crime. I don't understand that. I do not understand the incapability of some to grasp the concept of equality under the law. I thought that was a founding concept of America. Equal application of the law to all, no matter how high up the chain it goes. Guess that is just asking too much of people, to put down partisan politics and just look at the facts, guilty or not guilty. Didn't happen with Clinton. I don't have much faith that it will happen this time either, though the same people who want to excuse Clinton want to fry Cheney and use that to jump start frying Bush. They really don't care if it is true or not. Sigh. Almost laughable.
And I think that the powers that be in Washington just don't want us to know everything that would come out in impeachment hearings. Which are televised, so it would be HARD, HARD, HARD to spin. And the American people, I believe, are in a place where certain kinds of information would have very long-reaching effects. because I think there are more people toward the middle of the spectrum that the hard right or hard left.
So, I still say bring it on, have the hearings if they think they have the goods, and let it all come out. If the evidence points to guilt of Cheney, them impeach him, and if it is proven he is guilty, then remove him from office. And if others are in the process found to have committed crimes, then prosecute them and throw them in the cell next to Libby. Be they Dem, Repub, or polka-dotted. Let's try to get it right this time. Put the criminals in jail, not back in the White House. We can't go back and put Clinton in jail where he belongs, but we can get it right this time (yeah right, like that will happen, but one can hope).
If I sound disgusted, I am. As disgusted as kam but in a totally different way.
Oh, he knows. "You elect me", I will find
nm
I am not one of what you call "you people."
I didn't state any number or any guesstimate of how many people attended tea parties. I can speak for my town, which is a small town, and there were about 300 people at our court house yesterday.
Final counts aren't in from some of the larger cities, but even that won't be a fair representation of the numbers because of small towns like mine that might not be added in the mix - those numbers do add up.
All I was wondering from you is why you chose to quote a Canadian article - you answered that it was because it would be an unbiased source. However, it would be a biased source because they would really have no first-hand knowledge of how many parties there were, where they were, how many people attened, etc.
Personally, I attended not because I'm a conservative or republican or anything like that. And it wasn't a front for some big corporation so the rich could keep their taxes low (and I'm far from being rich!) I attended because I don't think Congress is doing a very good job spending my money. When people like Chuck Schumer stand up there and say things like the American people don't care about the pork, that's when I get upset. And for them to get all up in arms about the AIG bonuses, only to find out it was all right there in black and white in the stimulus package, but none of them even bothered to read it, that's when I get upset! If you and I did something like that in our jobs, we'd be fired on the spot!
This sort of thing should have happened years ago because the spending in DC has been out of control, even when the republicans were in charge (that's when I started voting democrat for a while.)It just makes my blood boil to hear the republicans in DC spout off about all the spending the democrats are doing - why weren't they doing anything about it 8 or 10 years ago? But it makes me madder still to hear them all (republicans and democrats) DEFEND spending all this money now and then leaving our children to have to pay for it later.
I just don't think it's right for the government to think that it can live by one set of rules while the rest of us have to live by another.
Okay, enough of a book, just needed to get that off my chest.
I am not one of what you call "you people."
I didn't state any number or any guesstimate of how many people attended tea parties. I can speak for my town, which is a small town, and there were about 300 people at our court house yesterday.
Final counts aren't in from some of the larger cities, but even that won't be a fair representation of the numbers because of small towns like mine that might not be added in the mix - those numbers do add up.
All I was wondering from you is why you chose to quote a Canadian article - you answered that it was because it would be an unbiased source. However, it would be a biased source because they would really have no first-hand knowledge of how many parties there were, where they were, how many people attened, etc.
Personally, I attended not because I'm a conservative or republican or anything like that. And it wasn't a front for some big corporation so the rich could keep their taxes low (and I'm far from being rich!) I attended because I don't think Congress is doing a very good job spending my money. When people like Chuck Schumer stand up there and say things like the American people don't care about the pork, that's when I get upset. And for them to get all up in arms about the AIG bonuses, only to find out it was all right there in black and white in the stimulus package, but none of them even bothered to read it, that's when I get upset! If you and I did something like that in our jobs, we'd be fired on the spot!
This sort of thing should have happened years ago because the spending in DC has been out of control, even when the republicans were in charge (that's when I started voting democrat for a while.)It just makes my blood boil to hear the republicans in DC spout off about all the spending the democrats are doing - why weren't they doing anything about it 8 or 10 years ago? But it makes me madder still to hear them all (republicans and democrats) DEFEND spending all this money now and then leaving our children to have to pay for it later.
I just don't think it's right for the government to think that it can live by one set of rules while the rest of us have to live by another.
Okay, enough of a book, just needed to get that off my chest.
Meant like "YOU GOT BEHIND BUSH"
nm
Olbermann: "You owe this country an apology." sm
Another great special comment from Keith Olbermann.
What part of "you don't have a choice" don't you understand
"Obama will call on citzens of all ages to serve America" My God!!!! Don't you hear this. Don't you question this. Don't you know what the germans when through with Hitler????
Forced is forced. You can put any fancy name on it you want. It is still the same as military service. Once in you don't have a choice of what you do. I was in the military, I lived with a german couple who went through the holocaust and heard many stories. I KNOW the military. What starts out as civil service turns into military service. Heck call it the country club service if it makes you feel more important than the military. The truth is this is forced and you don't have a choice. This is how the Hitler youth started (by feeling more important than those who weren't in the Hitler youth). They then went on to be the SS and finally the Gestapo. Sure the Hitler youth felt very "patriotic" and wanted to serve the Fuhrer. They were made to feel privilaged and would receive things (i.e. tuition to college, etc). It later turned out to be a much different story and unfortunately they had no choice. You cannot just leave whenever you want to. I don't want to see my nieces and nephews have to go through that. I blame all who voted for the O for that.
P.S. - NOT voluntary! What part are you not understanding. Mandatory and forced do not mean you have a choice. Just wait til the uniforms come. It's going to be slow but when it happens maybe you'll remember what I said. But then again the parents of the Hitler youth's wanted their children to enter the Hitler youth so they too would feel privaleged and patriotic. I just can't believe people are buying into it without a second question. That is what is so "disgusting" about that!!!!
who are "you guys". I'm a democrat and ashamed of
xx
Right, but who should be forced to help her? The
nm
Why must you be FORCED to do
something that you acknowledge a desire for, and is the right thing to do? This only gives credence to the theory that govenment has to solve our problems for us.
I was raised by smokers (one of which died of lung cancer). As a child, every family gathering was a nightmare because all the aunts and uncles were smokers as well. I've never smoked, hate smoke, and am pretty happy that it's now banned in businesses in my state. If it it were not a health issue, it's still an annoyance and I never understood why for most of my adult life I was required to put up with it in a restaurant or an office. At outdoor events it's still legal. This is a courtesy issue; just because you legally may smoke does not mean it isn't rude to do so when surrounded by people in a stadium.
But that's about as far as I am willing to go. I don't care if someone wishes to smoke in their own personal space. Somebody who has been smoking smells nasty to me (on a par with b.o., intestinal gas, or overwhelming perfume) . Some hypersensitive people actually are sickened by these odors on others, but if I get an occasional whiff of it, this is merely offensive and will do me no particular harm. Some folks are quite unaware of (or do not care) how they smell. It's another courtesy issue.
To argue that there are larger societal impacts to many of our personal behaviors such as smoking, overweight, transfat and sugar consumption, and alcohol use has validity in terms of health care costs. But to the extent that these behaviors directly harm only ourselves, I still think that we should be permitted to reach these conclusions on their own, and take measures to correct them without the intervention of a nanny government.
Millions of people quit smoking or drinking, change their diet or lose weight of their own volition and I think that a sense of accomplishment should accompany these successes, not the sense that somebody just nagged or taxed you into it.
Who are "you guys">>>>I couldn't care less about Ewards
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Being forced to own up. Not impressive.
nm
we are not being forced into socialism -
Obama is not a socialist.
I might would agree that we woudl be socialized if Hillary had won, but I do not consider Obama a socialist.
Not forced. Not compulsory.
"Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free."
Money for college in exchange for voluntry community service. What's so "disgusting" about that?
Yes, they SHOULD be forced to filibuster.
I was shocked to learn that these Republicans DON'T have to stand there and read the telephone book, etc.
And the Democrats are in "control" of Congress? 
Okie-dokie.
GM may be forced into bankruptcy......... sm
Looks like it might happen anyway. Remember the heated debates over this on this very forum a while back?
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE52428I20090305?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews
Exactly - just as your viewpoint is being forced
It works both ways, ya know.
"She" made it easy for "you" to lose control of yourself? sm
and end up writing that trash you wrote?
Only you are responsible for how low you sink. Anyone can see that.
Perhaps she would not have been forced into making it public...
had not the left gone to the blogs trying to claim that Trig was Bristol's and they were passing him off as her brother. To let that stand would do more damage to her daughter, don't you think?
Forced into that positin by your favorite...
political party, the DEMOCRATS. McCain told them this was coming in 2005. Sponsored legislation to look closer at Fannie/Freddie. The Democrats (big money buddies with Freddie/Fannie) blocked it. And here we are...Freddie/Fannie started the freefall. And let's not forget Barney Frank...another Democrat...pushing Fannie/Freddie to make those subprime loans to minorities and low income folks who did not have a hope in heck of paying it back. Most with no credit or bad credit. And THOSE are the people we are bailing out. Wonder how many of THEM are Democrats??
Yes, it is form of socialism, but at least we do not have SOCIALISTS in charge of it. If we elect Obama, we WILL have a hard core socialist in control.
Be careful what you ask for.
if kids are forced to do it, then adults should be too
x
If the religious freaks forced me to have it, -
I'd stomp on it the moment it popped out.
Dems forced to stoop way low while speaking
su
Gay cirriculum forced on elementary schools
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,521209,00.html
Talk about your double standards here. You can't pray in school, pass out Bibles in school, or talk about God at all but hey....talk to them about being gay. Once again, if you want me to keep my beliefs out of public school, stop forcing homosexuality upon my kids. They are wanting to teach this to kids as young as 5 years old.
Why can't they just talk to the kids about not being mean and making fun of others without bringing the whole subject of homosexuality into it?
It should be the parent's job to talk to their kids about homosexuality....not public schools.
Forced bible reading in public school
The Bible is without question the most recognizable and known literary works in the history of literature. It has been read time and time again by people of all races, nationalities and religions all over the world for hundreds and hundreds of years. It is the most prominent, dominating pieces of writing in cultures around the globe.
Yet apparently, it is exempt from that pesky little law of the separation of Church and State in the United States of America.
In Boca Raton, Florida, at West Boca Raton High School, the book of Genesis is on the required reading list for all incoming 11th graders to the school. It is not suggested or recommended, but is mandatory.
The school claims that no laws have been broken, as state law permits studies of the Bible as long as it is studied for its literature purposes, rather than as history. And this is the loophole which is allowing the school to force its students to read from the Bible, as it is seen as preparation for literary reading in the school year to come.
Wait a second … Students are being forced to read the Bible, because the school thinks it is pertinent to their reading in their particular grade level? And no one sees the problem with this?
Separation of Church and State was established to prevent religious beliefs and practices from interfering with activities within the government. And last time I checked, public schools fall under the category that is protected from religious teachings. While the Bible may have many great stories, and the style of writing and language may be absolutely fascination, why must students be required to read it? It is clearly the most blatant symbol and teaching tool for religion, despite its values as literary work.
Students should be recommended to read the Bible if the school feels so strongly in its “practical” use as literature teachings. Or have the teachers explain the important stories and style of writing, suggesting that the students follow along if they wish. But to down right require students to read it is a slap in the face to everyone who has valued the importance of keeping religion out of the government.
Would the school ever consider requiring the reading of the Koran? Or what about the book of Mormon? Of course these literary works would never be considered, mainly because of the overwhelming influence Christianity has on today’s society.
What could students possibly get from reading the book of Genesis that they couldn’t get from any other great work of literature? I managed to breeze through my 11th grade English class without ever having to pick up a bible, and I seem to be doing okay as far as literature knowledge goes right now.
Also, what will happen to the students who refuse to partake in the required reading? They school already stated that their will be quizzes and tests on the material (the book of Genesis), so does that mean if a student feels it is wrong to be forced to read the bible and doesn’t do it, he is out of luck come test time? If so, wouldn’t you think that those students wouldn’t care less of their grade by that point? If that was the case, then the school’s ploy to teach students the writing of the Bible would be a lost cause.
Requiring students to read books to better understand the English language and literature as a whole is a normal part of school. Teachers are supposed to assign work … that is their job. But to force religious teachings and preaching onto students isn’t the work of teachers or a school board … it is the work of pastors/ministers/priests.
And until West Boca Raton High School becomes a private school, requiring teachers to take the place of spiritual leaders is a crime.
We at the Noyse are furious and disappointed that this is taking place. While we value and respect the religious beliefs of everyone, we do not feel it appropriate to force religion or religious teachings upon anyone.
So we are taking action. We are doing this for all the unheard voices of the upcoming 11th grade class, who will read the book of Genesis because they have to and are unable to say no … or unable to be heard when they do say no. We are doing this for all the students who are bound to fail their tests because they refused to read the Bible as instructed. We are doing this for everyone who believes in the first amendment: The freedom of speech, the freedom of press and the freedom of religion. We are doing this for everyone who is frustrated with the State misinterpreting and reshaping the beliefs of the Separations of Church and State. And we are doing this for everyone who thinks this is down right wrong.
We are prepared to go to war over this issue. We are not afraid to make noyse, and are anticipating being heard only after we hear a lot in return. We are going to fight, and will not back down, slow down or shut up until this issue is brought into question by those with the authority to remedy the problem.
First off, we have started a petition, that we encourage everyone to sign if they wish to help us in this battle. You can view the petition here. Please, sign it and pass it along to everyone you know. The more voices who speak up, the louder we will be.
Also, we will be sending a letter to West Boca Raton High School, as well as the school district, stating our grievances, intentions and expectations. We will give them an opportunity to respond to our mission if they so choose to do so. We will inform them that while we may be a small army, we are not easy-influenced or easily intimidated, and will not go away quietly.
We will also be sending out press releases to all local media outlets (news stations, newspapers, etc.) in the Boca Raton area, exclaiming our business and informing them that a battle will be waged and to prepare for us to make some noyse. Also, everyone and anyone reading The Noyse who wishes to stand on the battle lines with us will be encouraged to contact their local media outlets as well and inform of them our mission.
Students heading into the 11th grade will be notified of our intentions and informed that they can either submit to the requirements, or stand up and make noyse along with us.
And finally, the government of Florida will be notified of the problem we see in this situation, and asked to reevaluate it as a whole. We will not beg, not plead, but insist that action be taken to prevent the students at West Boca Raton High School to be required to read the bible.
Obama and Ayers forced radicalism in schools...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122212856075765367.html
Wow, this is explosive stuff!
Also, James Johnson, who headed Obama's VP vetting committee...one of the Fannie CEOs who walked away with a several million golden parachute. Obama is on the Fannie list of donation recipients...#2 on that list, topped only by Chris Dodd. Wow...that is explosive stuff. Another advisor...Franklin Raines...another fired corrupt CEO from Fannie...walked away with a golden parachute in the multimillions...wow...explosive stuff.
excuse me....show me the person who forced Ohhbaaamaaa....
to ANSWER it the way he did??? Keep trying to hide the elephant in the room.
agree, but to be fair if 1 person is forced, then everyone (adults too) should be
x
Rahm Emanuel wants forced civil service
Listen to the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfV8iXiB9Xg
DH said its disgusting that he's laughing about it.
also, courts ruled the draft was not forced servitude in Butler v. Perry. nm
x
This looks interesting. A long read, so will read it when I get home from work. nm
nm
Obviously u didnt read, I said NONE of them are moral. Read the post before spouting off.
You feel someone should be forced to do something they feel is wrong? sm
Sounds like communism to me.
You're entitled to your opinion. I guess it depends on what side of the spectrum you're on.nm
x
I read on CNN (yes, I do read liberal stuff too..hehe)...sm
...that Karl Rove was actually very disappointed in the McCain campaign for airing negative type ads against Obama.
So I would say that Rove is definitely not in the hip pocket of the McCain campaign.
Good research sam - but a lot to read right now so gotta read it later
I've been goofing off too much from work. I appreciate what you wrote and will read when I'm done with work here.
We're not defending Bush we're pointing out the obvious
All you see in your view is Bush, Bush, Bush. Nobody else exists. You have yet to answer any of the questions I posed yesterday. We're not the one obsessing about Bush. I'm sure you'll counter that with I don't owe you any answers! It's really telling that for five or six days this board was mute about the Israel/Lebanon situation. You were too busy posting trash news about Bush like nothing was even happening, but I know that the left has wait for its talking points. You all cannot formulate opinions on your own. You have boilerplates ready to go though. *This is Bush's fault because _____________ but you have to wait on Howard Dean, Bill Clinton, etc. etc. to fill in the blanks for you. It's not just a phenomenon here but with all the left. You can count on at least two days of silence when something unforseen breaks out in the world, because they have to retreat to their bunkers to get their talking points straight, but it will always start with *This is Bush's fault because....
Hey, if they're smoking cigs, they're paying for SCHIP.
xx
They're too lazy to show patriotism......they're waiting
xx
So you're not racist but you're most definitely SEXIST and AGEIST!!!
"Someone more in our age group..."
"She should be taking care of her family."
Your true colors are showing, and they're truly ugly.
Just because they're LOSING doesn't mean they're VICTIMS.
What is it with people these days? You think that just because Hamas is getting its fanny handed to it that that magically makes them victims, and we should all weep and throw cash at them?
From the dawn of time, lesser civilizations have fallen to stronger ones.
It's why the human species survived and the neanderthals didn't.
It's why Rome conquered the Celts.
It's why the Barbarians conquered the Western Roman Empire.
It's why the British conquered the American Indians.
It's why the Spanish conquered the Aztecs.
It's why the Muslims conquered Israel the first time. But, since their societal progres seems to have permanently parked in the Stone Age, now Israel is conquering them right back.
Deal with it.
You're right. They're simply not worthy of a reply.
They're not tax breaks....they're tax credits
xx
I'm snotty, you're rude...we're even....
My dearrrr....not everyone in this country pays taxes. So you are wrong there. Obama said "spread the wealth." From his own mouth. The interview in Canada...economic parity and redistribution. Words from HIS mouth. If you believed those words from his mouth as much as you believed other words from his mouth, you would know he is a socialist. Selective memory is a wonderful thing ain't it??
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