Once in a while I take Lasix (BP med/water pill) when I get bloated that is my sister's.
Posted By: sm on 2007-06-19
In Reply to: Hey, guess what??? - Susan
And yes I know I should not do this but I'm not dead yet! I'm not sure if Atenolol is that similar so definitely monitor your BP and maybe call a pharmacy and ask them if you don't want to call the doctor.
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bloated after 12 weeks...
I got bloated somewhere around the end of the first trimester/beginning of second trimester. My pants hurt me sooo bad. I got some really uncomfortable stomach pains because of it. I finally had to break down and buy a couple of pairs of maternity pants. I was far enough along that I knew it was going to happen (buying pants) at some point in the next couple of months and it did not matter. Comfort is #1 in pregnancy, and if you want a pair of pants you can go out in and not feel embarrassed about, get some prego pants. I still wear those pants I first bought in my third trimester.
I like an inside water fountain or a water wall. Saw it on
s
Okay, my sister and I are doing Thanksgiving this year and since my sister can't cook, that means
I'm doing the cooking. My sister gets equal billing cause we're doing it at her house. :) Soooo, I'm looking for some vegetable ideas. I am about sick of green bean casserole! Does anyone have any really tasty recipes for vegetables side? Any kind of vegetables. I'm looking for something different and fabulous.
I had a corn casserole at one potluck I went to, but never got the recipe. Anybody got a good corn recipe?
Thanks Ladies!
Do you have really hard water? Maybe leaving water spots from lime, calcium, etc.? Or are the spots
s
Try crushing up the pill and
putting in baby food, I have had success with that. If not, there is a shot your vet can teach you to give, never had to do that myself, but a friend has and did it, but I am not sure if it is intramuscular or subcutaneous, I can do the latter, not sure if I would be able to do IM. I think it is called Torbagesic (not sure of spelling), but you can ask your vet about it. Good luck, I feel your pain, have dealt with cancer and it is so heartbreaking. Then again, I am so darned sensitive to them, any time I lose them I cry. I never get used to it. Good luck and keep us posted.
Diet Pill
I was also taking this med for weight loss. At one time it was a combo of two drugs, they called them ... “Fen-phen” diet pills. Although I did not take the combo I took the one you were inquiring about. It made me very jumpy, but also brought out an underlying condition (diagnosed by the same doc I got the pills from), and messed up my metabolism, as well as give me High blood pressure, due to the damage the pill had caused, the two issues I have cannot be reversed and I have been living with them since that time. Mind you, this was about 12 to 15 years ago when the combo came out. My advice is this, do your research, talk to the docs, read, read, read, and then if you think that you will be able to work with the side effects, and the benfits outweigh the risk, you should do what you feel is right for you.
Yes I did lose the weight, about 60 pounds at that time but like one other person stated I gained back plus 80. It is like a HYPER drug for your metabolism. Please be careful and good luck.
You know, just take a chill pill
I like to kid but just because you had what you think are complications to a tubal does not mean there are thousands out there saying best thing I ever did. I read some had depression. I was thankful and joyous that as far as sexuality goes did not have to rely on BCPs anymore and felt liberated. I never discussed a tubal or a vasectomy with my husband when I had my tubal. I knew what I wanted and that is what I did, signed the papers and there you go. If the OPs husband has serious concerns about not having a vasectomy, she might face the possibility of him being impotent but then that is something she would have to weigh, not me.
But of course there are now pill-identifier websites too!
http://www.drugs.com/pill_identification.html
pretty neat!
I know...and I was off the pill for about 7 years before my tubal (sm)
so can't blame mine on that. In the 7 years since I had my tubal, I have had to have a hysteroscopy for a thickened uterine lining and multiple period problems, very heavy, very painful. Before I had always had fairly easy, very average periods which lasted only 4 days. Now they last 7. Sometimes they stop completely for a couple of days right in the middle and then start up again. I will probably end up having a hysterectomy because of the tubal.
RUTIN, not familiar with this. Is this a pill? NM
NM
Get some lysine and crush a pill in some
canned food. It helps boost their immune system. Don't now about the fever and don't know details of where you got kitty, but rescue kitties often get herpes that will cause gunky eyes and congestion. We foster rescue kitties and we told to do this by our vet and it does work. The Clavamox is good, but lysine is good too and much cheaper. We always use that as our first course of treatment. Dosage doesn't matter as they won't OD on it, but no more than 1 pill a day.
take your happy pill today, did ya?...N_O_T....
regardless of the type of person ANS was......she still had people who loved her, had pain and misfortune in her life, grew up from nothing and tried to make something of herself, but had a type-A addictive personality...........MANY people are like that and you'd be surprised in one's own family how many people are like this...........
look in the mirror lately? I wouldn't point a finger at anybody's life....we ALL have our stories, now don't we?
in this imperfect world, there are too many pointing fingers 
judge not lest ye be judged (bibles all say this) and/or don't judge until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes..............
pot/kettle/black
Yep. I'm pretty good with the pill-giving
now too, but that CJ was tricking me and not swallowing his antibiotics. He'd pretend he did and then spit them out in another room.
All this is really new for Sasha. The vet told me she did her growl thing at her, and the vet told her not to do it, so Sasha kissed her. Cracked me up because that's Sasha for you - all talk, but loving.
Oh honey...go take a pill and have a stiff drink too...
some kids are just plain bratty and mean, bios and steps, no matter what the age. Many kids know how to manipulate the situation to their advantage, especially kids from divorce. Some of us are adult enough to see through it and make others aware. Nothing wrong with kids coming first, however, parents need to know when to reign little Tommy or Susie in and stop catering to them all the time.
Sentinel. Heartworm and flea protection in one pill. nm
x
Misha and Furkids mom....Oh, for a pill to take to help lessen the pain!
I am on several golden and Sheltie email lists. Whenever one of our fuzzbutts are ill, or have already made their journey to the Bridge, we include poems, passages, or what have you to express our feelings. Here is one of my favorites:
(Now, this might be too hard to read at this moment, if so, set it aside for another day. But, I promise you, someday you will get comfort from these words.)
THE JOURNEY
by Crystal Ward Kent
Copyright 1998 – All Rights Reserved
When you bring a pet into your life, you begin a journey — a journey that will bring you more love and devotion than you have ever known, yet also test your strength and courage.
If you allow, the journey will teach you many things, about life, about yourself, and most of all, about love. You will come away changed forever, for one soul cannot touch another without leaving its mark.
Along the way, you will learn much about savoring life’s simple pleasures — jumping in leaves, snoozing in the sun, the joy of puddles, and even the satisfaction of a good scratch behind the ears.
If you spend much time outside, you will be taught how to truly experience every element, for no rock, leaf or log will go unexamined, no rustling bush will be overlooked, and even the very air will be inhaled, pondered, and noted as being full of valuable information. Your pace may be slower — except when heading home to the food dish — but you will become a better naturalist, having been taught by an expert in the field.
Too many times we hike on automatic pilot, our goal being to complete the trail rather than enjoy the journey. We miss the details — the colorful mushrooms on the rotting log, the honeycomb in the old maple snag, the hawk feather caught on a twig. Once we walk as a dog does, we discover a whole new world. We stop; we browse the landscape; we kick over leaves, peek in tree holes, look up, down, all around. And we learn what any dog knows: that nature has created a marvelously complex world that is full of surprises, that each cycle of the seasons brings ever-changing wonders, each day an essence all its own.
Even from indoors you will find yourself more attuned to the world around you. You will find yourself watching summer insects collecting on a screen (How bizarre they are! How many kinds there are!), or noting the flicker and flash of fireflies through the dark. You will stop to observe the swirling dance of windblown leaves, or sniff the air after a rain. It does not matter that there is no objective in this; the point is in the doing, in not letting life’s most important details slip by.
You will find yourself doing silly things that your pet-less friends might not understand: spending thirty minutes in the grocery aisle looking for the cat food brand your feline must have, buying dog birthday treats, or driving around the block an extra time because your pet enjoys the ride. You will roll in the snow, wrestle with chewie toys, bounce little rubber balls till your eyes cross, and even run around the house trailing your bathrobe tie — with a cat in hot pursuit — all in the name of love.
Your house will become muddier and hairier. You will wear less dark clothing and buy more lint rollers. You may find dog biscuits in your pocket or purse, and feel the need to explain that an old plastic shopping bag adorns your living room rug because your cat loves the crinkly sound.
You will learn the true measure of love — the steadfast, undying kind that says, “It doesn’t matter where we are or what we do, or how life treats us as long as we are together.” Respect this always. It is the most precious gift any living soul can give another. You will not find it often among the human race.
And you will learn humility. The look in my dog’s eyes often made me feel ashamed. Such joy and love at my presence. She saw not some flawed human who could be cross and stubborn, moody or rude, but only her wonderful companion. Or maybe she saw those things and dismissed them as mere human foibles, not worth considering, and so chose to love me anyway.
If you pay attention and learn well, when the journey is done, you will not be just a better person, but the person your pet always knew you to be — the one they were proud to call beloved friend.
I must caution you that this journey is not without pain. Like all paths of true love, the pain is part of loving. For as surely as the sun sets, one day your dear animal companion will follow a path you cannot yet go down. And you will have to find the strength and love to let them go. A pet’s time on earth is far too short — especially for those that love them. We borrow them, really, just for awhile, and during those brief years they are generous enough to give us all of their love — every inch of their spirit and heart, until one day there is nothing left.
The cat that only yesterday was a kitten is all too soon old and frail and sleeping in the sun. The young pup of boundless energy wakes up stiff and lame, the muzzle now gray. Deep down we somehow always knew this journey would end. We knew that if we gave our hearts they would be broken. But give them we must for it is all they ask in return. When the time comes, and the road curves ahead to a place we cannot see, we give one final gift and let them run on ahead — young and whole once more.
“Godspeed, good friend,” we say, until our journey comes full circle and our paths cross again.
It is sold in pill form for weight loss,
so I would take it that way.
The pill always made me feel awful - does Depo?
x
Are you peri/premenopausal? Friend just dvdlpd acne and has had to go back on the Pill
s
Some say it's the water...
and they are cooked in salted water - some are not. They have a crusty-hard outside and a moist middle. And they're huge. They really are the best! :)
Ice Water, sm
Soak apples in ice water and a little salt. Kabobs would be a great idea but not sure about the wooden skewers.
no where to put the water?
ever consider the toilet? Lot's of other nasty stuff goes down ther:)
Yes, usually when I get water in my ear, that happens.
I put a few drops of alcohol in my ear and it goes away.
Water is not the only --sm
source of fluoride though. It is in our toothpastes, mouthwashes, and probably a number of other items you would never suspect. You have to be proactive and check labels on EVERY thing to avoid it. This forced consumption of fluoride brings to mind the long suppressed addictiveness of nicotine in tobacco and the health implications that caused. I feel sometimes that having fluoride forced upon the unwitting public could possibly be in the same category. Flouride is in all actuality a rat poison, used many years ago for that reason only. It hardens bones (osteoporosis??) but I am doubtful about any other health *benefits* of it. I think there are many more risks involved in its use than the unwitting public will ever be made aware of and a lot of information about it being suppressed as well.
Some ants come in for water as much
or more than food. I have heard they don't like to walk thru talcum powder. You can put a circle of it around pet water bowls if that is the draw for them. See if you can find where they are coming in, both the inside entry point and the outside. Plug holes with silicone caulk or expanding caulk like STUFF. A natural product is diamateous earth (not the kind used for pools, though). Use only outside, or it may be okay in crawlspace, but not sure. You don't want to breathe it, so wear a mask while pouring. Once it is down it harmless to people and pets, but when hard-bodied insects walk through it, the texture tears their exoskeletons up and kills them. But it is washed away by rain, so very expensive. Depends on how rainy your climate is as to whether it will work for you.
If they get caught, off goes their water!
Have my shutters open this morning and I see my next door neighbor starting to water her lawn. We are in a drought really bad here and the water is being rationed, so to speak. No one waters on Sunday (and Sunday as I write) and we have an odd, even day system when we do water through the week. Atlanta, which is close by, has gone to a 1 day a week watering system. Some places in my state have turned off water to people caught abusing this. I remember in the 80s we had such a drought our showers were limited to 5 minutes. I would hope it does not get that bad again.
They use saline, right? Not just water.
Saline sprays don't bother me at all.
hot water cornbread
WARNING: I do everything by eye....a pinch here, a smidgeon there...I just throw it all in a bowl and guesstimate.
Ya make 'em kinda like pancakes in a cast iron skillet on the stove and it doesn't heat the house up as much as baking.
Boil at least a cup of water in the microwave
Put about 1 to 2 cups of self-rising cornmeal in a bowl. Add 1 beaten egg and mix thoroughly. Then you add the boiling water in bits, slowly mixing it until the right consistency....not thin like pancakes.... kinda like what you would make for regular cornbread almost.
Heat skillet with about 1/8 to 1/4 inch oil heated med to med/hi.... then use a good sized serving spoon to dollop the mixture into the pan. Watch carefully and try not to burn
DO NOT, under any circumstances use jiffy mix.
After 25 years I've finally gotten it nearly right (darn Yankee that I am). Happy vows tomorrow!
Water 'em! (sm)
Hose them down outside, put them in the shower, or leave them out in the rain.
bluing and well water
I am on well water too. Have not used it most of my life but only the past 5 years so maybe that is part of my problem too! I don't know much about how it changes things. We do have a reverse osmosis system which is supposed to help remove rust and sulfur. Maybe I need the bluing too. More info on this would be appreciated! :) I also have allergies to most detergents so a brand name would be great!
thanks for the info. we have well water too. sm
we have a water softener, and filters. not sure if maybe that is helping my stuff dinge out. thanks for the info on the bluing!
Hot tap water - which is really very warm - sm
If it's too hot for your hands, it's too hot for the yeast.
I know I don't drink enough water...sm
I also have interstitial cystitis (chronic bladder inflammation) so I should definitely be drinking more water than I do. When I drink any carbonated drink, my bladder hurts the next day. I had a cystoscopy in September to diagnose this, and my bladder was all red and inflamed with little red pinpoint bleeding in it. When I do pee tests I have chronic white blood cells from the inflammation. So yes I would say I need to drink lots of water.
I go along with the filtered water--sm
It makes a HUGE difference in the way your coffee tastes. I turned my mother onto filtered water and she says she will never do it any other way. She even makes her icecubes with filtered water. Anyway, I am picky about my coffee as well and I buy Farmer Brothers. Around here, I can only buy it on line, as none of the stores carry it. I buy five one pound cans at a time, which is a little cheaper, with a flat rate shipping fee. It is supposed to be the kind of coffee that most restaurants use, which is why you can't get it in the stores. I do not like strong coffee. I cannot handle the caffeine and I do not like decaffeinated. Farmer Brothers has varying degrees of strength, as well as flavored coffees. I will also go along with a clean coffee maker, and don't forget to clean the pot, as well!
sometimes too much caffeine and not enough water..sm
I sometimes get these symptoms when I am actually sort of dehydrated from drinking too much caffeine containing products or alcohol and not enough water. I will then gulp lots of water and in a couple of days, I am fine again. I am very lax on drinking water, so it happens more often than I would like. Just a suggestion, though, not a "diagnosis."
Bottled Water
DH always buys Aquafina bottled water. I'm not crazy about it, because it seems to have a taste or after taste that I don't like.
What bottled waters do you like and is one better or healthier than another?
bottled water
Have been exposed to many brands and would highly recommend Ozarka if you can find it in your market. Its source is Piney Woods Springs in Wood County, Texas. In my opinion, easily the best tasting.
poster below me is correct - water comes from
So if we leave a water bowl outside for them, will they
op
With artificial soap and water??
s
ask her, Oh, When Did Water Ration Rule End?
nm
WATER spray bottle!
They hate it. Combine it with a fairly loud NO. They CAN be trained. Nail tips are probably humane alternative to the declawing thing.
Drink plenty of water...
I try to start my day with a pitcher of ice water on desk, like a 2-liter bottle and try to drink that during my shift, which really helps. Hubby and I went on program with Dr. and took Adipex and B12/B complex and followed the attached diet. We were on 1500 cal/day and he lost 65 and I lost 35. We quit taking the adipex but stayed with the diet. I lost 30 on this same diet several years ago too. It is well rounded. Somewhere I have an 1800 cal if you are interested. You don't count calories, it is already figured out for you. Daily meal plan gives you a break down of what to eat in a day (1 bread, 1 fruit, etc)and then the individual breakdown (breads, meat, etc.) lets you know what these include. (i.e. 1 bread - 1 slice of bread, 1 fruit 1 small apple or 1/2 cup canned fruit). No expense of buying diet products and you can eat regular food with your family. Funny. We used to eat 2 center cut chops a piece and with this we would split 1! There are free foods too so you could pile up a big salad for lunch and save other stuff for dinner. We did not quit drinking sodas, just switched to diet cokes 0 calories as opposed to 140 or so per drink. Good luck.
http://www.gatepharma.com/Adipex-P/Diet_Index.html
I have dulited bleach with water and used that before
and it did a good job without harming my skin. This was in very small areas. My hair is also short and I color my hair myself, so I often have little spots here and there.
Then I would suggest for clean water and
beaches you take them to Cancun. Florida has some bad water and beaches a lot of times. The water in Cancun crystal clear and the sand, no matter how hot it is, never burns your feet.
I hear you on the saving water, etc. sm
We also had the low water toilets in our last place, upgraded one of them to a better model because the plumbers said the standard ones were terrible and we were going to hate them, but it still had problems and not cheap!!. We're always conscious about running water around here for washing dishes, brushing teeth, etc. and would like to buy a different washer but can't afford right now, tryin' to do our part, ya know... I don't know about your low water toilets but ours were a joke, had to flush sometimes 3 or 4 times to get #2 to go down, had to have plungers beside each, which our guests had to use also. We wondered where the water-saving feature came in if you had to flush multiple times to get it to work. Was really embarrassing for us and people who stayed when they had to tell us they plugged the toilet up or couldn't get it to go down, but don't know what the solution is, maybe a different diet?? Lol, and quiz everyone who stays with you about their bowel habits and proceed with caution when using our facilities... We don't live there anymore, but maybe someone here has some suggestions on this... Don't mean to hijack your post, but am interested if someone has suggestions on brands.
With fake water and soap.
zxc
I would get some really cool/cold water
sounds like an extremely good idea to me, wished I had thought of that earlier.
I'm actually starting to think that is could be hard water.
It's very strange. Some days, my hair will feel thicker, and then some days it will feel really thin. This has never happened to me before! It literally just started this past fall after I turned 26. Maybe it's just stress, although I don't have that much. I do take a multivitamin every day and have for the past several years. I also tend to eat really healthy and drink a ton of skim milk! I'm starting to think that maybe it is just stress. Also, I'm wondering if it could be hard water in my house causing it when I shower. When I first noticed this around October, it was while I was washing my hair in the shower and I started pulling strands of hair out like never before. I guess that is really something to consider. I do live in a much older house.
Oh, besides loving water, they also eat olives!
NM
In many areas they also get free water too
Also even tho they don't pay property taxes they get the sevices of police & fire protection and possibly trash pickup!
I found this - it's from Oct 11, 2006. Interesting read!
Not so Separate Church and State—Should Christian Organizations Get Breaks from the Government?
The New York Times this week has run a series of interesting articles by Diana B. Hendriques about the ever decreasing size of the wall between church and state in a variety of matters. This particular blog will try to digest the evidence she presents. Here first are links to several of the articles
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/08/business/08religious.html?_r=2&pagewanted=6&th&emc=th&oref=slogin
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/09/business/09religious.html?th&emc=th
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/10/business/10religious.html?th&emc=th
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/business/11religious.html?th&emc=th
Take first the issue of Christian Day Care Schools. In many state they do not have to be run to the same standards nor have the same inspections as state run Day Care centers. For example a state run center in Alabama must: 1) have regular training for its staff; 2) submit to regular on-site inspections; 3) have a lock and key for the medicine cabinet; 4) have two sinks only one of which can be for food preparation; 4) have a license; 5) comply with the civil rights laws in regard to hiring; 6) file a report with the IRS of donations and grants to the center. None of these restrictions apply to the Church of God Day Care Center in Auburn Alabama or for that matter other such Christian Day Care Centers. One of the things that came as a surprise to me in reading the articles is that while some such exemptions are of long standing, many of these sorts of exemptions have been created in the last fifteen years. In fact, there has been a growing trend of such exemptions in the last decade or two--- more than 200 laws have been created since 1989 of this sort in a wide variety of states. One professor from Emory has bemoaned the changes in the laws and says that separation of church and state is no longer the law of our land—instead we have what he calls ‘religious affirmation action programs’. And what is especially telling is that it is low church Protestants who formerly screamed loudest about separation of church and state who are now taking full advantage of such new laws, while still preaching that the government is a menace to and is endangering the separation of church and state rules. What’s up with that?
The timing of these new breaks in the law is especially propitious since the church is going more and more into non-traditional styles of ‘ministry’--- ranging from ice cream parlors to beauty salons to athletic facilities to funeral homes to day care centers to bookstores! Churches get property tax breaks, and lee way in using their land to a degree that other organizations can only envy. Here’s one telling sentence from the first of these articles which appeared in Sunday’s paper--- “In recent years, a church-run fitness center with a tanning bed and video arcade in Minnesota, a biblical theme park in Florida, a ministry’s 1,800-acre training retreat and conference center in Michigan, religious broadcasters’ transmission towers in Washington State, and housing for teachers at church-run schools in Alaska have all been granted tax breaks by local officials — or, when they balked, by the courts or state legislators.” Of course all these facilities have city water, city trash service, city fire and police protection and so on—they just don’t have to pay the taxes which pay for them.
In some cases, it is right to ask are all of these exemptions given to activities that are 1) not for profit; 2) could be called charitable activities that benefit the whole community and the like? It is easier to answer this question when it comes to soup kitchens open to all, drug rehab centers open to all, clothing and shelter services open to all. For example, my church runs a ‘Room at the Inn’ service for the homeless several nights a month. These sorts of services do indeed benefit the whole community and are a public service. But some of these perks seem to go well beyond the intent of First Amendment which of course says that Congress shall make no law in regard to the free establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. In what way is freedom of religion at issue in the establishment of a Christian beauty parlor? Inquiring minds want to know. When you discover tax exempt Christian old folk’s homes that are raking in huge sums of money, do not take the poor or indigent, and bleed dry every last resource of various old people, you have to say--- THIS IS NOT A CHARITABLE ORGANIZATION.
And then there is the issue not just of tax and land use breaks, but the actual garnering of federal grants. You will be interested to know that this growing trend began with Bill Clinton in 1996. There are now federal grants and contracts that churches can regularly apply for. Just another example of everyone’s tax dollars at work. Is it really true, by and large that radical courts have been gutting our religious freedoms, or would it be fairer to say that the courts have not done this, indeed quite the opposite in the last fifteen years, but it has become more particular about the public display of religious things on public property? It seems to me that the latter is nearer the actual truth.
Lets consider another aspect of the separation issue—employees of religious institutions. Many of them have few if any legal rights when it comes to their employment. They can be dismissed without due process or proper cause. Take for instance the story of Mary Rosati. She was a novice in training in an order of nuns in Toledo. One day she went to the doctor with her Mother Superior and discovered she had breast cancer and that it was serious. The Mother Superior then announced” We will have to let her go. I don’t think we can take care of her.” (not a religious ground for dismissal. Indeed one might say that dismissal for that reason goes against the religious teaching of Jesus). Some months later Ms. Rosati was told that she was being let go because the Mother Superior and her council had concluded she was not called to be a part of the order (a religious opinion). Mary Rosati lost her health insurance in them midst of battling cancer, and still has none. Now if it had been a secular employer, Mary Rosati could have taken the matter to court and won on the basis of the American with Disabilities Act. But when Ms. Rosati went to court, the case was dismissed as an ‘ecclesiastical’ matter which was beyond the court’s jurisdiction and indeed outside the Americans with Disabilities Act. Bottom line—here we have a Christian organization trying to selfishly protect itself, at the expense of one of its own noviates. In short, the law, or lack of a law, allows Christians to behave badly towards their employees. And there are many similar tales I could tell. Take the case of Lynette Petruska, who was a chaplain at Gannon University, a Catholic school in Erie Pa. In fact she was its first female chaplain. During her brief three year tenure in this job, she apparently did her work too well. She refused to co-operate in the cover up the sexual misconduct of a senior official at the school, she refused to support the slackening of restrictions in regard to on campus rules about sexual harassment, and she was demoted and then in essence force out. Here was a woman who went through 16 years of Catholic education, was very supportive of her institution she was serving at, thought that Christian ethics should especially apply there, and probably lost her job for it. Two years have come and gone, and no court so far will touch the case because of ‘separation of church and state’, even though Rev. Gannon says that her superior acknowledged he was demoting her because she was a woman. Or I could tell you the story of the 73 year old United Methodist minister who was forced to retire from his church in Stony Brook even though he wanted to keep serving as did his church, but he bumped into the mandatory retirement rule of our denomination. He has sued, to no avail thus far. Does age discrimination have a place in the Christian workplace?
Perhaps we don’t want the state to police the church for us, but in that case, should we not be policing ourselves? Should we not set up some sort of ecclesiastical court system for all genuine Christian denominations that such people could appeal to? Couldn’t we have an accountability system for Christian colleges and institutions? Something with some clout like the Evangelical Financial Accountability organization?
But there are other issues as well. In June of this year, Governor Jeb Bush signed a piece of legislation into law which exempted “the Holy Land Experience” from paying $300,000 a year in back taxes for the last five years. Seems this ‘Christian business’ has been raking in the dough. Now I have been to this Christian theme park. It’s o.k., but it has its hokey dimensions, and it certainly isn’t a charity. It’s a for profit organization that benefits from land use laws, property laws, and tax exemption as if it were a church. Only its not—it’s a business, a theme park, only a few miles from Disneyworld and other theme parks. It cost $35 for adults and $23 fir children to get in. Charity is not the word that comes to mind. Nor is it providing any public service of a social nature at least (it is providing some dubious Biblical interpretation). I don’t have a problem with them being a business—but shouldn’t they be paying for city water, lights, streets, fire and police services, like any other business? Inquiring minds want to know.
If we look at the issue of laws invoking or ruling on the separation of church and state issue two things seem clear. They were far stricter in the mid 70s than they are today, Secondly, we cannot claim that this change is due solely to the growing political influence of the Republican religious right. In fact it has come about because Christians who are both Democrats and Republicans in Congress, the Senate, and the White House have been in favor of doing more that weakens the separation of church and state provisions. Now none of this crosses the line such that we could claim that the government is establishing or prohibition a particular religion. After all, Moslems, Jews, Hindus and others are also benefiting from these laws. But as it stands the government, both federal, state, and local is now in effect fighting secularism on its own by passing such laws. Which brings me to a point and some final questions. I haven’t even touched the fact that clergy can opt out of Social Security and get housing allowance breaks with the IRS. There is incredible scope to the amount of privileges granted in the name of religion by various levels of our government.
QUESTION ONE--- IS IT TRUE OR FALSE THAT OUR GOVERNMENT IS ANTI-CHRISTIAN? I don’t really see how we can claim it is true in any global or comprehensive sense if one looks at the trail of legislation.
QUESTION TWO—DO WE CARE IF THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE HAS BEEN ERODED IN SOME RESPECTS, AND STRENGTHEN BY EXEMPTIONS IN OTHERS? It certainly seems that even many traditional Christian separatists care less and less about this.
QUESTION THREE—DO WE WANT THE GOVERNMENT HELPING US THRIVE IN BUSINESS, AND EXTEND THE SOCIAL GOSPEL IN VARIOUS WAYS? I don’t particularly see the latter as at all a bad thing, since it has some wide public benefit and does not amount to the establishment of religion in the doctrinal sense. As for the former, I have some questions.
QUESTION FOUR--- IF ALL THIS IS TRUE, IS THE CLAIM OF INCREASING LIBERALISM AND SECULARISM IN OUR CULTURE SIMPLY FALSE? Yes I think this is largely true on the latter issue (secularism). We are a profoundly religious people, its just not as much Christian religion as it used to be. As for the former question, I think the answer is yes and no depending on the issue. If you look at the way the nation votes as a barometer, the answer is that since 2000 signs point definitely towards no.
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