I agree, paddling is barbaric and, according to your daughter, is ineffective
Posted By: QA girl on 2007-12-07
In Reply to: What would you do? School trouble. - concerned mama MT
Even she would rather have it than ISS, thusly restriction of freedom is a greater punishment than pain. I am with you, I don't know why this is still in effect. I also live in the south and have to write a letter every year stating my child is not allowed to be paddled. Believe me he would MUCH rather be paddled than have the Xbox Live and TV taken away from him!!!
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I would choose the ISS because the paddling is ineffective.
If all the kids are choosing swatting, obviously, they see it as the lesser punishment. Your daughter is very concerned about school, and you described her as a type A personality. So now here's the opportunity to teach her to put things in perspective.
I think ISS is a more appropriate punishment. She was wasting class time by being late to class. I think 5 tardies is substantial. By age 14, she should be able to get herself to class on time and start building up some self-control when it comes to the chit-chat. So, since she wasted time, she should have to pay time back. That comes at the expense of the class she is so concerned about. A lower grade may indeed be the lesser consequence, but is she going to fail out of school and never get into college and end up homeless on the street because of the lower grade in one class at age 14? No. Certainly not!
As a parent, you need to look at things long-term, because kids can't. You also need to steel yourself for the major melt down she will probably have if you don't permit the swatting. This, I think, is the hardest part of the entire learning experience for most moms. Some moms fall all to pieces in these situations. And don't flame me, but from what I've observed, it seems to happen more with mothers and daughters, especially if there's an element of "everyone-else-is-doing-it".
So look down life's road for your daughter, get your nerve together, and tell her the ISS is the better choice. When she falls to pieces, don't play into it. In the end, it will be worth it. The ISS will be the deterrent that will work for your type A daughter in the future. The paddle can never have that sort of influence over her.
No kidding. Shooting them is so barbaric.
How cruel and heartless. I'm sure animal control could have been very helpful.
Teenage 'virginity pledges' are ineffective
By Rob Stein
!["](http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Art/SITEWIDE/PartnerColorBoxLogos/WaPost_333_GCH.gif") updated 7:20 a.m. CT, Mon., Dec. 29, 2008
Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of birth control when they do, according to a study released today.
The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that more than half of youths became sexually active before marriage regardless of whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the percentage who took precautions against pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases was 10 points lower for pledgers than for non-pledgers.
"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, whose report appears in the January issue of the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make a difference in condom use and other forms of birth control that is quite striking."
The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions about programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage, including those that specifically ask students to publicly declare their intention to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes beyond earlier analyses by focusing on teens who had similar values about sex and other issues before they took a virginity pledge. "Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges," Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only the apples to other apples."
The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new Obama administration are about to reconsider the more than $176 million in annual funding for such programs. "This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy. "What have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex until they are older, but then when they do become sexually active — and most do well before marriage — they don't protect themselves or their partners?"
'Get real about sex education' James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed: "The Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get real about sex education in America." Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as flawed and argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further than simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain virgins. "It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild, ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the content of abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the National Abstinence Education Association. Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered detailed information from a representative sample of about 11,000 students in grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.
Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first to use a more stringent method to account for other factors that could influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex before they took the pledge.
100 variables
Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or taken a virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who were 17 years old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity pledge, with 645 who did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She based that judgment on about 100 variables, including their attitudes and their parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of their friends' attitudes about sex and birth control.
"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a virginity pledge tends to be different from the average American teenager. The pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be more conservative. They tend to be less positive about sex. There are some striking differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers to all non-pledgers doesn't make a lot of sense."
By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a pledge had retracted their promises, and there was no significant difference in the proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in any type of sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex, vaginal intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their number of sexual partners. More than half of both groups had engaged in various types of sexual activity, had an average of about three sexual partners and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even if they were unmarried.
"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge," Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence has to come from an individual conviction rather than participating in a program."
'Negative views about condoms'
While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who reported condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the pledge, and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use any form of contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those who had taken a pledge said they always used a condom, compared with about 34 percent of those who had not.
Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about condoms in abstinence-focused programs.
"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take part in abstinence-only education have more negative views about condoms," she said. "They tend not to give accurate information about condoms and birth control." But Huber disputed that charge.
"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the level of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms may reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove the risk."
I agree - a mother is a mother and a daughter is a daughter for life sm
despite the problems they had, which i truly believe stem for anna's drug problems. obviously her mom wasn't too bad or she would not have raised daniel for a while. i think the mother wants her buried in Texas so the grave will be close enough that she can go visit it without having to come up with expenses of going to the bahamas to get there. although i contradict that too in poor anna needs to be buried with her son.
I agree. We are considering our daughter's lives here....
NM
I agree with you totally. This is not about my daughter
the above poster was responding to my question about what happened. I truely think she should have a face to face with the pricipal or superintendant.
I agree PAMT, I also have a teenage daughter
as well as 5 teenage nieces and that is why I asked the poster to elaborate on her post. See mine below.
Paddling
I most definitely would not sign a permission slip to let somebody hit my child. I don't hit my child and obviously from what you wrote, it is not a very effective punishment. I bet the school could come up with some real killer punishments, like having the kids do clean up around the school grounds or bathrooms! Now that would shut up my little chatty-cathy. Speaking of whom, she told me today she would rather be in school than not be in school, she loves it there, but unfortunately she has no inclination to get a job, I guess she'll be one of those people who go to school as a career!
Paddling
Both of my children, a son (age 32) and a daughter (age 26) went to a Christian academy their whole school career. My daughter going on to a Christian college. They were both paddled in school. I knew this ahead of time when I signed the papers for them to go to school. They were given demerits for things such as lying and cheating, disrespect of a teacher or anyone in authority. They were given a chance to work off demerits (going a week without any, cleaning). When 10 demerits were accrued the principal gave them 3 swats, not a beating. Both of my children are well-rounded and respectful adults. My son owns his own business, is married and has a daughter (who, yes gets a spanking now and then). My daughter is a Christian school teacher. I can count on one hand how many times my children were paddled in school. It deterred them greatly from being rebels. We also spanked them at home when need be. They have both told my husband and myself how grateful they are that they were reared with boundaries. If the administration of the paddling is done without anger, I see nothing wrong with it myself.
Paddling vs ISS
I would pick the in school suspension to get the tardy message across. My son, who is 11 has ADHD and for him to lose recess is the biggest thing that could happen to him for punishment. Perhaps the same principle will work with your daughter. JMO.
On paddling
As a former teacher who had one student paddled by the principal (I had to witness, but only the principal was allowed to paddle), I have to say I would NEVER do it again. It was just dehumanizing to have to stand there and watch the kid get hit. He wasn't being hurt and it was done in the office with just the principal and myself - no public humiliations. But, it was an awful feeling and I promised myself never again. I'm from the generation that was coporally punished, but I don't think it's a good idea. A swat on the bottom for a young children is okay, but paddling....
Your child's friend is correct - it stings. If done correctly, the child is asked to bend over from a standing position and place his hands on his knees. This leaves the buttocks available as an easy target and prevents the child from contracting the buttocks, which takes the sting out. It does not leave bruises if it is done with a thick wooden paddle and usually about 5 swats is it.
I'm sorry to hear this, but as you say, she knew there would be consequences to infractions. Tell her to wear her heaviest jeans and an extra pair of undies.
I totall agree too. I have a 15yo daughter and i would never snoop unless i felt there was reason.
trust is trust. she has build up my trust and given me no reason not to trust her. i'm sorry but i think reading through emails and snooping just goes too far unless you have reason to suspect something. i do glance through myspace occasionally, but would never read every email. i don't even know her passwords. i think if you are at the point you need to read through every email your child does, you need to reevaluate your relationship and parenting skills. bash me if you wish, but don't be too strict or you can push your children the opposite way to where they will never talk to you and have an open relationship with you. trust is simply trust and should be earned. look at an adult relationship. it isn't a very well relationship if you can't have trust. should be the same with children.
SIGN THE NO PADDLING....
figures, it would be Texas paddling the children......no offense to our posters from Texas......I just somehow knew upon reading further down the page that it was going to be TEXAS paddling children still in the 21st Century. Give me a break......
Nobody can whack my kid, except me....*lol*
Paddling v in school suspension
I would never sign a paddling allowed slip. If I were not there, what would the person doing the paddling be like? Your daughter says everyone else is because it does not hurt. What if they change the person and it is way too much? Besides, to me 14 years old is too old for a spanking. Taking away school time in the inschool suspension is better I believe. I remember how everyone hated detention in my days, and had to sit there with the troublemakers, and do extra work. It was really embarrassing! I say do what your heart tells you, not what your daughter tells you. You are the parent! If your heart says there is reasonable doubt there is something wrong with paddling go with that IMO. My best to you! 
a single paddling at school is different
from a parent keeping a paddle at home during the summer. I'm wondering why you need to go on and on about this.
My past is my past. I believe each parent has the right to raise their children in a manner that suites each family. My hope is that physical punishment is limited, but there are other methods of physical punishment other than paddling which can do worse harm to a child. Even verbal abuse can be worse.
Thank you for your sympathy for the decisions my parents made, but those things are in the past. BTW, I don't let people get close before of emotional manipulations by people in my adult life and not having learned how to stand up for myself when I was a child. Now I have learned those leasons and just use more caution about whom I take into my confidence. I'm not as screwed up as I feel you are trying to intimate :)
I would sign the "no paddling" slip (sm)
I don't punish my children by spanking and they are generally very good kids and do what they are supposed to do. When they do slip up and do something wrong, there are plenty of punishments that don't include hitting them. In general, the children I see whose parents spank them are less well behaved than those who are not spanked. I know someone who punishes her children harshly in my opinion - and they are very good as long as she is around or if they think she can find out what they have done wrong - but if they see a chance to be bad they jump at it. I do think it is an archaic type of punishment and has no place in the world. I say let her do ISS and maybe think of a punishment at home if it keeps happening, like grounding her from a privelege she enjoys or something like that. No hitting!
Paddling is child abuse. Even Florida doesn't allow it.
xx
Daughter's phone is daughter's responsibility. Valuable lesson learned.
It should be between the daughter and the friend if the friend is going to pay any of the fees. They are teenagers, not preschoolers.
What an awesome post! I agree, agree, agree completely with you.
 You are right on the money in my book! 
I agree, try to live in another country, then you will also agree...nm
nm
absolutement! Agree! Agree! Agree!
Why is it so hard to understand this? HMOs are just middlemen who get everything balled up and costly!
Yay for your daughter!
Glad to hear it!
My daughter did twice...sm
and everything did turn out okay. She was very concerned and upset of course but her doc was very positive with her, explaining that there are a lot of false-positives for some reason or another. Good luck to you and try not to worry. I know that is easier said than done though!
Yes, with my first daughter. sm
The test results were actually quite bad. I worked at a doctors office at the time and had the blood drawn there. When the results came in from the lab the four family docs I worked for called my OB and all five had a sit down, serious talk with me. I was extremely frightened, but knew I wouldnt do anything drastic if it was truely Downs. My daughter turned out 100% fine. No Downs. Nothing. With my next two daughters I skipped the test all together. I knew I would never terminate due to Downs, so I left it in Gods hands and skipped that part of testing. All three of mine are fine. That test has too many false results.
My daughter is trying to get me to try
Of course, she is a little thing, but she teaches at a high-stress school, and at the end of the day, she loves to go there. She has gained a lot of muscle which she likes and upper body strength, which she definitely needs. I need to give that a try.
I just went through this w/my daughter...
and yes what is attached is definitely alive. You need to get the small comb that comes with the lice kits and VERY THOROUGHLY comb through all the hair to get the remaining eggs out. If you leave even one egg it will hatch and start the process all over again. My daughter has long hair and I combed it daily, at least an hour at a time. After 10 days, use the lice shampoo again to be sure.
Get the same from my daughter-in-law
all the time, just delete them, just pro-war for nothing and not me.
My 12 YO daughter
I just had to brag about my 12 YO daughter. She and I moved into a new apartment a few months ago. A mentally retarded man, in his 50s, lives down the road. Most 12-13 YO kids won't be associated, or seen, with a retarded man....my daughter is different.
My daughter and I were outside playing catch last night when this man stopped over. She asked him to join us. He played with us for a couple of hours. She was patient, kind, compassionate and understanding.
I truly have an angel for a daughter.
P.S. On a side note, I did tell her I didn't want her to be with him when I wasn't around, etc....for safety reasons.
If that were my daughter.......
I would have marched up in that house and knocked him for a loop!!! I have three daughters and although they are still young I can't imagine anyone ever mistreating them!! As a mother, I can only imagine the heartache you feel for your child!! Thank God she is able to get out now b/c he sounds like a potentially violent person. If I were her, I would never look back and I would make his parents aware of his abusive and neglectful treatment even if they don't want to hear it!!!
My daughter has 1 and I
know she does not have this behavior out of hers- she has had hers for say about 2-3 years and he does little crazy things like snap at the air (nothing there), very loving pet.
daughter
My daughter works at a daycare and they are having an outbreak of hand, foot and mouth disease. Pretty contagious from what I gather. I'm not sure what kind of treatment, if any, is necessary. Unless she seems really ill, I think you can probably wait until tomorrow and call your pediatrician.
The daughter is 7. nm
!
what my daughter does
is 1) wait until they show readiness, 2) try to anticipate, and encourage a run to the potty,giggling all the way, and 3) makes it fun with lots of praise, and then when they are successful, she gives them 1 M&M. I know some will scream this is wrong to reward with food, but i doubt this will create big problems. My husband used to let the kids run around the house with no britches on and they were much more inclined to want to go to the potty -- but that really depends on their environment too...and personally, i don't think 2 is too soon for some kids, but it certainly is for others.
When my daughter was 13
she had her first period in August as well. (The day before school started....aahhhggg!) She did exactly what your daughter has done, nothing in Sept. and then every month since. She is now 14. Just a hint that you probably don't need, I keep a calender on my desk and put a "K" on it each month when she starts so I never have to wonder. Trust me, we all know in this house when it happens for her each month LOL!
daughter having sex
I understand where you are coming from to some degree. Kids nowadays are more worred about and active in sex than we were; however as a parent of a teenager and understanding that this can be an emotional time for you, I have to ask. Are you really this freaked out about her sex life because she is having sex, or because of who it is with? Yes, you may not like this guy but how long do you want her to stay with him? This hissy fit of yours will only cement her with him. Keeping quiet about him and making sure that your daughter realizes that BCPs are not enough protection for what is out there would be a really good place to start. I have discovered with my own kids that sometimes just letting them see people as they really are ends relationships that I disapprove a lot faster than nagging. None of us wants to realize that our children are growing up and making their own choices but they do and are. We have to hold on to the hope and knowledge that we raised them correctly. I think we all can say that we did things that we regret and that they were/are only made worse by over-reacting parents. BTW, that age old saying about if they want to have sex they will, really does apply and do you really want to lose your daughter over some guy?
I do have to agree also with the comment about you and your hubby raising a child...WHAT are you thinking? If you don't want her to "give up her life" because of a baby and she is on the pill, then I suggest you make sure that she is well aware of the other options. You will not be teaching her anything by allowing her have a baby and then raising it yourself. I know that I sat my child down and explained things in that we have "been there/done that."as well as the fact that we will not be paying child support for a child (I have two boys).
Yes, realizing that your "baby" is growing up is hard, but come on get a grip. She is 17 not 12 and you had to know this was coming especially if you have an older child. She is having sex, not as protected as you would want, not with someone you think is good enough, BUT she is not dead/ dying nor has she run away, right? There are way worse things out there to worry about then the fact that your daughter made a bad chose in who she wanted to have sex with. Help her with the proper protection, make sure the lines of communication are open and pray for her safety and your sanity!
Again, what really (other than your daughter)
gives you the right to insist?? I do not see where you have a leg to stand on. You are upset but not thinking things through- you only have control over your own self- not your daughter, not anyone in your family and really not this guy. I read your post yesterday and I understood when you talked about what you would like for him to do but insisting? He would have to be a wuss to go along with that and being as he has this criminal history behind him, does not sound like he would be pushed into much of anything. Why don’t you get some advice from a lawyer before letting anyone else know about the information you have gotten. Probably a good idea.
daughter
Good luck to you! As a mother of 4 I totally understand why you did this as I would probably do the same. I in a way understand why they consider this a weapon because if she ever got in a fight and decided to use it etc. I am sure your daughter is smarter than that but you know how they think. Maybe somehow you can work it out with the school that she can drop the keychain off to them in the office in the a.m. and be able to pick it back up before she leaves. That way she still has protection when she gets off the bus. WISH YOU LUCK!
My daughter has had 2 out of the 3
And she didn't have to have a Pap.
How old is your daughter and how
many children does she have? Does she work?
My daughter has ADD
She is not hyperactive, but has an extremely hard time staying on task. She will daydream, watch the butterflies out the window, count the number of times the girl sitting across from her breathes a minute, etc.
She is in third grade and has been on medication for 2 years now. She struggled all through first and second grade and at the end of second grade we had her evaluated. she has a cognitive processing disorder and ADD. Basically, she can see it in her head but it is hard to get on paper. If she can hold it or actually do it, then she can learn it. It is hard for her to read a story and take a test on it, because she has not actually done what the story says, therefore she has not "learned" it.
We noticed a huge difference once going on the medication, but the school also made some accommodations in the classroom. She gets some extra time to take a test if she needs it, she can take her test away from the rest of the class if she needs to, her teachers have been wonderful about giving her extra one-on-one support and giving us materials to study at home.
I certainly do not endorse medicating every child who is just very active and talkative, and this was a huge struggle for my husband and I to commit to putting our daughter on medications. We said we would try it for a few months and if it worked, great. if it didn't, then we would take her off the medication. It was literally like night and day. She can sit still longer, she is able to finish a problem without getting distracted, she can think clearer, etc.
She calls them her magic pills. She tells us they have helped her to think better and it is easier to listen.
You didn't say how old your son was. Is he in elementary school?
Hey.....my daughter
is in that show!
My daughter uses that a lot
I can't stand it either.
Me too, even though it's actually my daughter's
We got it for our 9 y/o for Christmas and we've all had so much fun with it! We're all actually hurting today because we've been playing it every night! I whooped my DH at baseball, bowling and tennis last night - WOOHOO! It's great though that we can spend all this quality time together on a video game system and we haven't sat down and watched tv in days either. I can't wait to get the Fit one either. I saw it's out in Japan (I think) but not here yet. Definitely the best Christmas present that we can all enjoy.
Get this - my daughter
 is 38 (only child) and the older she gets the more "name brand" stuff she wants. Would you believe a Hermes twilley ($150!) and perfume that cost $100! Is she spoiled or what?? But I love doing it!
My daughter wet the bed until she was 11
As she as she hit her 11th birthday it stopped just like that. It was very frustrating. She was a very heavy sleeper and when I tried to wake her up she wouldn't budge, and then when I did get her up she was so disoriented that she would think she was in the bathroom and try to go to the bathroom in the floor in her room. I took her to a urologist and she did have a problem with her urethra that corrected itself as she got older. She was even on medication for a while. Of course, from what I read of your situation it's a lot more complicated than when my daughter went through. I would try to see if I could have him checked out by a urologist to see if there's a medical problem that can be taken care of with medication. My pediatrician told me not to worry about it because it was something that would be outgrown. She was very embarrassing for her. She wore Good Nights for a very long time and we had an incident at a sleepover at our house where all her friends found out, but they were very supportive. Just try to not make it seem like he's doing something wrong.
what about your daughter's
was he involved? were you married?
that would be her daughter, right?
pretty sure that was, ****** or ***...A-something-y.
Edited: Names
My son is now 17 and daughter is 15
and I promise you it is not all bad. Some of the things my kids come home and tell still shock me, even in this day and age, but I am fortunate that my kids are involved in many activities, have wonderful Christian friends, and we are a very close family. There was a girl (a senior) recently telling everyone she pregnant and was keeping the baby. She has a very prominent father. About a week later she said she made it all up. I do understand no matter what kind of family life she has (a good one) girls do unexpectedly find themselves pregnant, but I tend to wander if something was done about the pregnancy and she was told to tell everyone she made it up. I also can't imagne telling the whole school which is basically what she did. Okay, I know I have gotten totally off topic, sorry. I just feel like as parents my DH and I are trying to do everything right (DH is coaching DS high school tennis team even as I type this) and it is possible my kids still might make "major" mistakes. I know mistakes are going to happen, how else will they learn, but I can't help but wonder if I am fooling myself sometimes. Sorry so long. I still hope you call the school.
When my daughter was 9 she had
her one and only cavity. When her dad asked her about the shot before they filled it she said she didn't get a shot. We all got a good laugh over that one. This reminds me of the third time I took her in to get her teeth cleaned. She was about 6 and had never had any trouble in the past. She actucally kind of liked going to the dentist. On this particular visit I had to sit on her legs to keep her still. She screamed and cried. I expected them to tell me to never bring her back, but the dentist was just wonderful. After it was all over another dentist jokingly said "Would you like a valium?" I said "How about 10" I still don't knowwhat the problem was but she has had her teeth cleaned twice a year since (she is now 15) and we never had another problem. Go figure. LOL! Don't sweat it, it really isn't that bad at all.
How exactly is your daughter going
What does your child need money for? You say it's for her, but I bet if you ask her, she'll tell you she really just wants to get "back to normal". Dragging her through court will not help her overcome her fear of dogs. Instead, you should be concentrating your efforts on having the dog impounded. Soon you will be known as the neighbor "quick to sue". You'll find other parents will not want to invite your daughter to their houses, etc, because they'll be afraid if something happens to her while she's there, you'll sue. I'm not saying that you would, that's just how some people might perceive you.
I got the impression from your original post. You said very little about the emotional details of the situation. You primarily discussed the money aspect of it. If I've gotten the wrong impression, I'm sorry. I just didn't get much else from your post. You even mentioned you watch People's Court and other court shows. These shows put ideas into people's heads that they constantly have to sue.
My kids play baseball. They get hit with baseballs all the time when they're up to bat. Do I have the right to sue the parents of that child who hit them? How would that help them?
Daughter sm
We don't discuss this in front of our daughter. We have contacted animal control, but they have done nothing about this dog, absolutely nothing!
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