I agree PAMT, I also have a teenage daughter

• Just a vent - sm
  • Who would have thought that your post - trose
  • Just to let everyone know - sm
  • My take (sm) - sml4
    • I totally agree! - CAMT
    • I do agree to an extent....... - sm
      • Excuse me? - PAMT~MDM
        • I agree PAMT, I also have a teenage daughter - trose
      • I don't understand the comment - trose
        • I understand the comment very well - Older than most
          • I understood the comment, too - PAMT~MDM
          • Don't group all girls in that same generalization. - trose
            • I totally agree with you ... - !!!!
              • I heard from my husband some time ago - Older than most
                • Huh? - PAMT~MDM
                  • Sounds quite narrow-minded to me. - trose
                    • How old is she? - Alice
                      • She is 14. We talked about it - trose
  • I not sure but I believe it depends - sm
  • what about this one? - amdahwd
    • I just don't get it - sm
  • OMG! - nuQA
    • I plan - sm
      • Before you start printing up posters and plastering - tread carefully
        • I don't believe I mentioned that AT ALL - sm
          • the town where I live sends out notices - to all local residents - SM

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1.  Driver's education/training classes if required in a state (ours mandates it) and it's not available as part of the public school curriculum?  The price is $325 for the 40 hour course if taken through one of the state approved places and includes 6 hours of hands-on driving experience and 34 hours of classroom instruction. 

2.  The cost of car insurance and gas?

My husband & I are considering for item #1 having our almost 15-year-old pay for half the course as she does have the money in the bank and makes money babysitting, but haven't totally decided on this.  We know that if we ask her what she thinks about it she'll respond that she wants us to pay for it because she likes to spend her money on music.  We do pay $100 a month for her to have guitar lessons which began this past summer.   For item #2 we do agree that she should pay for the insurance/gas when she gets her permanent license.  Some of the parents in our area pay for this for their kids and others either have them pay all or part of it.  Our rules for driving once she turns 16 is that she will have to keep her grades up to a B average or higher, have a part-time job and if she slacks on either then the keys are taken away.  She isn't involved in extracurricular activities after school so there's no reason why she couldn't work a few hours a week during the school year to cover these costs.   We do have a good dependable car for her to drive (1992 Cougar with low mileage) so at least there's wheels for her to travel on.

What's your opinion?

Ok, I was out walking this morning and these 2 teenage (middle school) boys starting yelling things at me as I walked by!! At first, I couldn't tell what they were saying or who they were directing it to because I had my headphones on, but after a while I realized they were speaking to me!! One of the boys was saying MOOOO and I couldn't tell what the other one was saying. I just ignored them and kept walking, as I know they were being stupid boys (especially since I'm not overweight), but I would really like some advice or great comebacks to tell these losers the next time they try something like this. Obviously, I would love to just spray them with pepper spray or kick them where it hurts, but I don't want to go to jail :) I really wish all parents would teach their boys how to treat a woman, so things like this wouldn't happen!!!!

By the way, my husband is out of town for another month, so I can't send him over to the bus stop to have a "talk" with them!

I don't know if this is too "harsh" for your daughter, but have you thought about showing her the results of drinking and/or driving?  I drank A LOT in high school, starting around 15 when my mom got sick and continued daily drinking through graduation and then some.  Did my fair share of drinking and driving or riding in cars with drivers who drank, thinking that nothing would ever happen.  My sister who was 5 years older than me died from drinking and driving when I was 18, and to "show" me and my teenage cousins the consequences, we went with my uncle to see her car that had not been cleaned after the wreck (nasty, and I still see it to this day which is about 18 years later)...she was in a little 4-door car and fell asleep and drove underneath an 18-wheeler.  That sight was burned into my brain and I never forgot what drinking and driving could do, that we weren't invincible. 

I did hear of a school that was doing "shock presentations" to students, arranging to have 10 or so students missing from classes for the day, then the other students were told that they were killed in accidents from drinking.  While that is a bit extreme, I really think that shock works best on teenagers as I always thought I knew best and that nothing would ever happen. 

By Rob Stein
updated 7:20 a.m. CT, Mon., Dec. 29, 2008
Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of birth control when they do, according to a study released today.

The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that more than half of youths became sexually active before marriage regardless of whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the percentage who took precautions against pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases was 10 points lower for pledgers than for non-pledgers.

"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, whose report appears in the January issue of the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make a difference in condom use and other forms of birth control that is quite striking."

The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions about programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage, including those that specifically ask students to publicly declare their intention to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes beyond earlier analyses by focusing on teens who had similar values about sex and other issues before they took a virginity pledge. "Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges," Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only the apples to other apples."
The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new Obama administration are about to reconsider the more than $176 million in annual funding for such programs. "This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy. "What have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex until they are older, but then when they do become sexually active — and most do well before marriage — they don't protect themselves or their partners?"
'Get real about sex education' James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed: "The Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get real about sex education in America." Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as flawed and argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further than simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain virgins. "It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild, ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the content of abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the National Abstinence Education Association. Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered detailed information from a representative sample of about 11,000 students in grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.

Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first to use a more stringent method to account for other factors that could influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex before they took the pledge.

100 variables

Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or taken a virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who were 17 years old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity pledge, with 645 who did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She based that judgment on about 100 variables, including their attitudes and their parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of their friends' attitudes about sex and birth control.

"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a virginity pledge tends to be different from the average American teenager. The pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be more conservative. They tend to be less positive about sex. There are some striking differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers to all non-pledgers doesn't make a lot of sense."

By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a pledge had retracted their promises, and there was no significant difference in the proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in any type of sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex, vaginal intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their number of sexual partners. More than half of both groups had engaged in various types of sexual activity, had an average of about three sexual partners and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even if they were unmarried.

"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge," Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence has to come from an individual conviction rather than participating in a program."

'Negative views about condoms'

While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who reported condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the pledge, and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use any form of contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those who had taken a pledge said they always used a condom, compared with about 34 percent of those who had not.
Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about condoms in abstinence-focused programs.
"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take part in abstinence-only education have more negative views about condoms," she said. "They tend not to give accurate information about condoms and birth control." But Huber disputed that charge.

"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the level of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms may reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove the risk."

saying the word F**k many times during your conversation does not make you sound cool or grown up.

From the lady who is going to slap you silly

I just had to brag about my 12 YO daughter.  She and I moved into a new apartment a few months ago.  A mentally retarded man, in his 50s, lives down the road.  Most 12-13 YO kids won't be associated, or seen, with a retarded man....my daughter is different.

My daughter and I were outside playing catch last night when this man stopped over.  She asked him to join us.  He played with us for a couple of hours.  She was patient, kind, compassionate and understanding.

I truly have an angel for a daughter.

P.S.  On a side note, I did tell her I didn't want her to be with him when I wasn't around, etc....for safety reasons.

I understand where you are coming from to some degree.  Kids nowadays are more worred about and active in sex than we were; however as a parent of a teenager and understanding that this can be an emotional time for you, I have to ask.  Are you really this freaked out about her sex life because she is having sex, or because of who it is with? Yes, you may not like this guy but how long do you want her to stay with him?  This hissy fit of yours will only cement her with him.  Keeping quiet about him and making sure that your daughter realizes that BCPs are not enough protection for what is out there would be a really good place to start.  I have discovered with my own kids that sometimes just letting them see people as they really are ends relationships that I disapprove a lot faster than nagging.   None of us wants to realize that our children are growing up and making their own choices but they do and are.  We have to hold on to the hope and knowledge that we raised them correctly.  I think we all can say that we did things that we regret and that they were/are only made worse by over-reacting parents.  BTW, that age old saying about if they want to have sex they will, really does apply and do you really want to lose your daughter over some guy?

I do have to agree also with the comment about you and your hubby raising a child...WHAT are you thinking?  If you don't want her to "give up her life" because of a baby and she is on the pill, then I suggest you make sure that she is well aware of the other options.  You will not be teaching her anything by allowing her have a baby and then raising it yourself. I know that I sat my child down and explained things in that we have "been there/done that."as well as the fact that we will not be paying child support for a child (I have two boys). 

Yes, realizing that your "baby" is growing up is hard, but come on get a grip.  She is 17 not 12 and you had to know this was coming especially if you have an older child.  She is having sex, not as protected as you would want, not with someone you think is good enough, BUT she is not dead/ dying nor has she run away, right?  There are way worse things out there to worry about then the fact that your daughter made a bad chose in who she wanted to have sex with.  Help her with the proper protection, make sure the lines of communication are open and pray for her safety and your sanity!